Go deep into a few of the most notorious Grand Valley myths and legends with two of my Palisade pals, LisaMarie Pinder and Corinna Scott. Hear the stories behind the infamous jar of Grand Valley dirt (8:18), the thunderbird on the Mesa (18:51), the vengeful train conductor (26:47), where you can find bits and pieces of historic coal mines (29:58), why Palisade has twin houses (33:50), and where you can find old labor camp cabins around town (37:02).
Are you familiar with these stories? Or maybe you know a slightly different version? Are there other Grand Valley myths and legends that we didn’t cover? If so, I’d love to hear from you. You can email me at lisa(at)postcardsfrompalisade.com. I’d love to share more stories on a future podcast episode.
Theme Music: Riverbend by Geoff Roper
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Transcript:
Welcome to Postcards From Palisade, where we hear from the people who are shaping our slice of western Colorado. I’m Lisa McNamara.
Today we’re talking about a few of the most notorious Grand Valley myths and legends with two of my Palisade pals, LisaMarie Pinder and Corinna Scott.
We go deep into the stories behind the infamous jar of Grand Valley dirt, the thunderbird on the Mesa, and the vengeful train conductor. We also chat about where you can find bits and pieces of historic coal mines, why Palisade has twin houses, and where you can find old labor camp cabins around town.
Keep listening to hear LisaMarie and Corinna’s favorite Grand Valley myths and legends, on today’s Postcard from Palisade.
Lisa: So today I’m joined by two of my wonderful friends. LisaMarie Pinder.
LisaMarie: Hello. Nice to be here with you.
Lisa: And Corinna Scott.
Corinna: Hello. Also nice to be here with both of you. All of you.
Lisa: I think that you are both two of the most interesting people that I know. And you both have such great stories and are such great storytellers. So I’m really excited to talk with you both and just hear about all the myths and legends that you know about Palisade. do you want to go ahead and start first and introduce yourself?
LisaMarie: I am LisaMarie Pinder. I was born and raised here in Palisade, Colorado, graduated from Palisade High School (Go Bulldogs) in 97. I moved, to Austin, Texas in 1998, and then I returned home in 2020 and I’ve been here last four years with my awesome husband, Garry, and I take care of my mom full time and she has Alzheimer’s disease.
In 2021, my husband was finally able to come and join me here in Palisade. And you know him coming from Austin, Texas, coming from a big city. He’s, a music producer and a professional musician, as well as having a real job, which my mom loves, but super talented, incredible producer, and has a ton of music out there. So if you want to check out his stuff, just look up Install on Spotify and you’ll find all of his stuff. Or check out Bandcamp and search Install or Mr. Garry Franklin and check out his, music.
Garry, and that is with double Rs. Not one R.
Corinna: Oh, Garry two Rs. Yes. We love Garry two R.
Corinna: I started a million years ago in Austin, Texas. and then we moved to Pennsylvania, when I was fairly young. So I grew up outside of Philadelphia. I came to Palisade for the first time around 2008. Had a friend who moved out here, and I came out to visit and, as I like to tell people, I caught a Ute curse. And, now here I am all these years later. I moved out permanently with my son in 2018. He is now a freshman at Palisade High School. Go Bulldogs. and we just love it here. You know, I never wanted to be anywhere else. Once I went up the monument one time. It’s pretty much how it worked. And then I moved here and met you incredible ladies and our great group of friends and, you know, I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.
Lisa: And I don’t know how many people know this, but Corinna is the voice, the punster behind the sign at Dinomart.
Corinna: Yes, yes. I, manage the Sinclair Dinomart, here in Palisade. 309 West 8th Street. Please come visit us. And I absolutely love being able to try to be concisely clever, in putting phrases, words, whatever I can up on the sign. Sometimes they’re really super personal to the store. Lots of happy birthdays. you know, we have our regulars. We really enjoy being like, we’re family owned. my boss is me, him and two other people. It’s just four of us that run the store and we really like being a part of the community.
Lisa: what’s the favorite sign you’ve ever done
Corinna: I think my favorite, if I had to pick, Snoop Dogg is a very. I think Snoop’s been mentioned pretty, regularly on there. but I had one after the super bowl that I was able to put Snoop d o double g. And that really, like, made me happy that I could fit that phrase. and then I think the most popular one that I heard about, like, from the furthest reaches, like, I got a picture of a screenshot from somebody else in like Nevada maybe, was the temps are higher than Willie Nelson one. That one was very well received.
Lisa: I love it.
Corinna: The Palisade Dinomart is across from the C&F, which is a Conoco, which I find hilarious because if you go into my store, you will see right by the front register. Priscilla Walker gave us a, picture of the store in 1968 when it was a Conoco gas station. So it was the original gas station in town that building I believe was built in 64. The picture that we have is from 68. And there’s like a really specific way to line it up.
When they redid the store, eventually they added on kind of to both sides. So then we got Diorio’s on the one side and then the liquor store, and the Kratom shop on the other side. But it used to just be that one section, and it was a Conoco. And then at some point, you know, I don’t know when they built the actual C&F and then it became a Sinclair. And it’s been a Sinclair, as far as I know, for at least 30 years.
LisaMarie: Longer than that.
Corinna: Longer than that. I know that dinosaur needs. My poor dino needs a paint job. Anybody knows anything about painting fiberglass, let a girl know. You can really like line up, you know, like that window. when they did.
LisaMarie: I think I remember it being like.
Corinna: It used to be 5Bs.
LisaMarie: Yeah, like a gas station. But more. Had more automotivey kind of stuff too. That’s what I remember it being when I was, you know, like really young.
Corinna: And then it had the sandwich shop. It was 5B for a long time. And the B
LisaMarie: I forgot that it was the 5B. Oh my god.
Corinna: And the 5B was the like it was the kids names. They all started with B. And there was two twin girls
LisaMarie: I totally forgot about that.
Corinna: that drove. I have heard legend of these hot twins that drove a jeep in their cutoffs in the early 80s and worked at the store. And I love hearing. it used to be the old man coffee stop like way back the guys like there used to be more of a counter area in there. and they would come in and they got free coffee and they would just sit there and shoot the breeze for hours and hours. but so then every once in a while somebody will walk in and look around and be like wow. They did a full renovation about eight years ago because there used to be a pass through into what is now Palisade Kombucha. Used to be a little sandwich shop. And you would like go in the store and you could walk through the back and get to the sandwich shop. so they. I guess about. It’s probably been eight or nine years now that they renovated that and got rid of it. or closed that off and made it like its own separate thing.
LisaMarie: You just like unlocked a memory. Like I had this flood of like. Oh my gosh. How many things I remember I had like. Sorry Sinclair, I didn’t mean to block you out. Apparently I’d forgotten about it but now that was. That was great. Thank you. Thank you for unlocking a core memory. I remember getting a sandwich there and going down and fishing underneath the Colorado bridge off a Highway 6 down like where we drop in to go rafting. A core memory of sitting there with my dad fishing and eating a sandwich from the 5B.
Corinna: The 5B. Yep. I can’t remember all the Bs but you know it was like Barry, Barbie. Well I guess that’d be Barbara but it was the kids names were all B. So that’s what the parents named the store was 5B and the family owned it for quite a number of years. I’ve had one or two of the actual family members stop in. but I found out about that legend from the old football coach. He’s one of my regulars and comes in and tells me.
Lisa: and if you don’t already have right. I’m sure you have a ton of regulars. But if anybody doesn’t go to the Sinclair and knows stories about the building, you’ve got to go come talk to Corinna.
Corinna: oh please come talk to me. I’m there six to two Monday through Thursday and all kinds of other random times too. If you need me, go to Sinclair. They will get me there post haste.
Lisa: We’re here to talk about legends and myths. And so just to define what a legend or myth is is that there’s going to be different interpretations of it and somebody listening is going to say, that’s not how I heard it from my mom. Or that’s not what I believe. And so that’s the point though. There’s facts behind everything, but a myth or a legend is a story at the end of the day. So, was there anywhere you want to start?
LisaMarie: Well, funny you ask Lisa, because I brought my jar of dirt. So when I, was a very smart person and graduated high school, I decided to run away to the big city and moved to Austin, Texas. It was like August of 1998, I guess. I grew up, growing up here in Palisade. I had two aunts. One, my aunt Jean, who very much followed a lot of indigenous culture, myth and mythologies. my other aunt, Roberta Keeler, was also, a kindergarten teacher in Teec Nos Pos, Arizona on the reservation and also lived in Cortez for a long time. She happened to adopt three Ute Indian children that were. Her best friend was very ill and so she took over the care of them. So growing up from a very young age I was surrounded by a lot of indigenous culture, whether it be Navajo, Anasazi, Ute, and then obviously having three adopted cousins that I love very, very much. my aunt really wanted to keep their spirits alive of like, who they were. And so we went to a lot of pow wows, things of that nature. Anyhoo, when I was gonna leave, my Aunt Jean was like, you better get your jar of dirt. I was like, is this a prank? Like what are we talking about here? But I kind of heard about it, but didn’t really know all that much about it.
The mythology of taking a jar of dirt with you when you leave the Grand Valley stems from, from what I have been told. back in 1881 when the last Ute people were forced out of the valley, the legend is that the chief cursed the valley and that nothing would come of this place. It would stay desolate and that anyone that moved here would, you know, be forced to stay here and suffer kind of. Is from my interpretation of what I heard. So the only way to circumvent said and then if. Then also so you’d be stuck here forever. So the only way you could ever leave the valley and be prosperous when you left, is you had to take dirt from the four corners of the valley and take it with you and keep it with you always. And the legend follows that if you don’t take said jar of dirt that you will be forced to return here under dire circumstances.
Corinna: So I think we’re similar. I’m glad. Okay.
LisaMarie: Yeah. So that’s always what I’ve told. And my aunt, you know, I’d heard it kind of before, but my aunt really impressed upon me that I needed a jar of dirt. Right before I left, a girlfriend of mine came over with this beautiful, you know, foot tall jar. it’s like a 3 by 3 inch, I don’t know, 12 inch jar. And she says, get in the car, we’re going to get your dirt. So her and I had a wonderful afternoon riding around and we went to the four corners. Or what we thought would be the four corners. So, in this jar there is dirt from the bookcliffs. Right here.
Lisa: Okay. Which is kind of like a lighter whitish color.
LisaMarie: Yeah. At the bottom and you can kind of see that it’s real shale right there. then the next one is on top of the mesa. So this is the very top of the Grand Mesa, like kind of near lands in road where the best chipmunks or land squirrels if you want are. And then this guy is from the Colorado National Monument. This is like from Cold Shivers point. Went and got this dirt. And then this guy’s from the Uncompahgre. So we went down like Dominguez Canyon, I guess more it Escalante Canyon off a Bridgeport road out past White Water. And so these are my three corners or four. Four corners of the dirt.
Lisa: So it’s like whiteish, brownish, orangeish, greenish. It’s very visually beautiful.
LisaMarie: So I took this jar of dirt and I left, ran away of the big city, went to Austin, Texas. And I’ve had this jar of dirt always sitting in the living room where I can see it the entire time I’ve lived in Austin. in 2020 when Covid hit, I got a call from my mom’s friends because my mom still lives here in Palisade, that my mom was not acting right. And so I flew down here right away to check on her and find out what was going on and quickly realized that dementia had hit her pretty bad. So with it being Covid, I stayed here and was here taking care of my mom while my husband and daughter’s still in Austin. And I didn’t have my damn jar of dirt. I was just here without my dirt. So it was pretty upsetting. Anyways, come to find out, my mom, had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease and I’ve taking care of her ever since for the last four years. And she’s the awesomest, bestest lady in the world. She deserves the best care because she is literally a wonderful mom and been a wonderful friend and a wonderful steward of the community. Anyways, finally 2021, my husband was able to come up here and join me and I went and got my jar of dirt in Austin and packed her up and brought her home.
And some people are like, well, you still had your jar of dirt but you still had to come home for this bad circumstance cause of your mom. And you know what? I had already wanted to come home to Colorado. I was so sick of being in Texas, for a lot of reasons. I wanted to come home and be back in the four. You know, the have four seasons being in the mountains. Be back in a small community. I missed having a small community rather than just being a number in a big city.
So honestly, coming back here and being able to spend the time to quality time I’m spending with my mom. Moving back here allowed me to make wonderful friendships. Moving back here made me allowed me to be part of the community like I want to. I volunteer my time as a planning commissioner for the town of Palisade and I love being able to do that. And so while I do have my jar of dirt and I did have to come back here, ultimately it was one of the best decisions I could have made for myself and hopefully for my husband, but and ultimately of course for my mom. But I think my carrying around my little jar of dirt this whole time actually was part of happiness rather than despair.
Corinna: I love it. Yeah, I love your jar of dirt.
Lisa: That’s beautiful.
Corinna: And so our stories or not stories, but like our understanding of it is not too dissimilar. Although in my head, although these are very visually different colors. The Uncompahgre comprises like technically is not the monument.
LisaMarie: They were the four. That’s the furthest spot that way. That’s the furthest spot that way.
Corinna: So when I heard the story, it was more that the valley is made up of a triangle, right? Because you have the Uncompahgre on this side and you have the mesa here and then you have the bookcliffs here. So you’re like in this triangle. So you had to take dirt from or the way that I’d heard it originally was if you didn’t take dirt from all three areas of the valley or all three corners, but I guess, you know, we’re going triangle. then you were always destined to return. So my thing was I was like, well, I wouldn’t wear the same shoes if I hiked up Garfield as I would if I went and like hiked on the monument. Because I didn’t want to accidentally. The way that I heard it was that if you did not take the dirt with you, then you were always destined to return. Not that it was a negative thing necessarily, just that you were always destined to return to the valley if you didn’t leave with all the dirt with you. So in my head, if I didn’t leave with those mixtures of dirt with me. Right. Like, then I was good.
Lisa: Yeah. So you would stay here.
Corinna: So I kept returning.
LisaMarie: Well, there’s.
Corinna: And here I am.
LisaMarie: I’ve heard the legend also be that you had to get it from the top of Mount Garfield. Specifically one dirt. Then I’ve heard the three. I’ve heard the whole three triangle thing. And one of them is, at where the Colorado and the Gunnison meet or what was the Grand in the Gunnison that led to be calling Grand Junction.
Corinna: Love it.
LisaMarie: That you had to take dirt from there, the monument and the bottom of Mount Garfield. So I’ve heard that one too. And that’s very specific as to where exactly supposed to get it, but with the same connotation. And I was actually trying to look up like Mr. Dave Fishell and Palisade Historical Society Tribune woot woot!
Corinna: Love them.
LisaMarie: And I couldn’t really. That’s pretty much the gist of the same thing that I kept reading with everybody else. But, with the way I grew up and having more exposure to more indigenous cultures, it made total sense to me. And I thought that I should not mess with this legend.
Corinna: Yeah, for me too as well.
Lisa: But I like the way you’ve interpreted it where you’re like, I don’t want to accidentally collect all those three dirts so that I’m not going to be able to come back.
Corinna: Right, right. So like, I spent 10 years coming to visit before I moved. Right. It was. I came out here in 2008 and I was like, boom, 10 year plan. My oldest was at the time, eight. And I was like, I’m gonna get you through high school and then, you know, we’ll go from there. And so that was always the plan. That’s what I did. Took me ten years. but I would come out here for the weekend because it was cheaper to fly out here and get a cheap rental car. Like, I would fly to Denver. I would get a cheap rental, like 12 bucks a day. Amazing. And I would fly out here. I would stay with my friend. You know, we would go do too many shots for a flat lander at the distillery before they measured their pours. And I can no longer have cherry lime aide flavored anything. So there’s that. That might be the Palisade legend.
Lisa: oh my gosh
Corinna: is that if you don’t wind up on the floor after a night at the still.
LisaMarie: we could have a whole podcast about the livery. I mean, come on.
Lisa: Oh, my God yeah. Oh jeez.
Corinna: we can. I like to point out the bullet holes in the ceiling to people that have not noticed them.
Lisa: Yeah.
Corinna: It’s always fun. It’s just like, yeah, just look up.
Lisa: Actual bullet holes are in the ceiling.
Corinna: Yeah, there’s all kinds of great, wonderful things that have taken place at the livery.
Lisa: Yeah. Well so before we move on from the dirt, though. So I think the moral of the story is basically, if you want to leave, just get as much dirt as you can from everywhere. And then get out of here.
LisaMarie: I would think it should be take dirt from whatever area means the most to you. If it’s your childhood home and it’s a happy or, something that gives you good memories, dig up some of the dirt from there and throw it and jar and take it with you. Or if it’s a special place or a park or wherever. I think that’s the moral of the story is taking something that means to you, you know, means something to you.
Lisa: I like that.
LisaMarie: so that’s how I would apply the jar of dirt theory.
Lisa: Good stuff
LisaMarie: for collection purposes.
Lisa: Yeah. Okay, cool.
Corinna: I like it.
Lisa: So, yeah, going back to the liv, then. I mean, we can’t talk about anything that we’ve done there.
LisaMarie: What? I’ve never been there. I don’t know what you mean.
Corinna: Is that the livery over here.
Lisa: I have never been to livery.
Corinna: Can you take me to the livery? People have asked me before. Yes, I will happily take you to the livery.
Lisa: All right, next myth. What’s the next one you want to talk about?
Corinna: I like the Thunderbird story.
LisaMarie: Thunderbird story is gonna cause controversy.
Lisa: Oh, yeah. Ooo.
LisaMarie: Because everybody tells it a little different. But I think you know it the best because I’m sure you’ve heard Dave tell it.
Corinna: I’ve heard the Dave version, and I learned it from Dave shout out to Dave Smith Pali Tours. Dave’s who taught me that story existed so then I went on my nerdy deep dives, which is what I like to do. And that’s how I know so much random facts about Palisade. If we’re being honest. A: I have done the historical society’s walking tour numerous times. Maybe not always walking, usually on a bike. Love a pedal. but then I literally in my phone, if I were to go over there and get it, but I’m not gonna. My top saved search window in my internet is Colorado historical papers. So, like, if I hear a story, like, I decided I wanted to look up more about the Gearhart mine, there used to be a man named Zeke Phillips that owned that mine. If you look up Zeke Phillips in the Palisade tribune, you can get all kinds of stories. Zeke like hit a train with his truck and still drove the truck away. You know, just limped it on home. He wasn’t gonna be stopped. But that’s like the kind of things. So I get off track. What was I talking about before that?
Lisa: Thunderbird. Dave Smith.
LisaMarie: The Thunderbird.
Corinna: Dave Smith, you’re gonna edit all that part out. So, yes, shout out to Dave Smith, from Pali Tours for telling me about the Thunderbird. and then if you go online, Seth Anderson, who is one of the founding, brothers that founded Loki Outdoor Gear. Seth, has numerous, published articles and stories. And it’s. I mean, most of what you can find about the Thunderbird online, somehow is like. Like either it’s Seth’s telling of it to various things or it’s him like saying here like, I’ve read quite a few. most of them start. But it always. You get Seth Anderson. You can find it. There’s many a pathway to a different, Thunderbird article.
But so the story that I know of the Thunderbird on the side of the mesa is that there was a great warrior who came home to the village one day and all the village children were missing. and so he rounded up some other warriors and they went on a search and, they went up and they found small children sized bones in the Thunderbird’s nest. So in retribution for their, losing the youngsters from their tribe, they took the eggs from the Thunderbird’s nest and dropped them into the, river. And so then the Thunderbird comes back to its nest and sees that its eggs are missing, and is searching for it and is picking up boulders and tossing them down and picking up boulders and tossing them down, and then finally realizes that the snake, AKA the river, has its babies, picks up the snake shakes it all around, fills in the holes. And that’s how we get 300 lakes on top of the mesa. Because the Thunderbird angrily threw, which understandably, threw down these boulders and created all these beautiful lakes. and then the river filled it in. Now I will say that the river filling it in. sometimes in my telling of it, I like to be really dramatic and say that the Thunderbird’s tears filled it in. but I have to be being in a very dramatic mood.
LisaMarie: Hey, it’s folklore, man. You can change however you want.
Corinna: So I’ve told this story both ways, to different groups of passengers, I’m sure. But usually I stick to the snake because then I get to talk about the river and I love the river.
Lisa: So. And so then that’s what’s in the side of the cliff then memorialized. Is the Thunderbird picking up the snake?
Corinna: Yeah, because if you look, you can see like the sides of the wings. And then you can see it’s like talons like grabbing like what looks like a snake. And there’s our Thunderbird.
LisaMarie: Right. So it looks one wing. Looks like there’s a like a snake dangling from it.
Corinna: Yeah.
LisaMarie: I’ve heard so many different variations of that story. I did see an idiot one time post online, like, what’s the name of the bird shaped, image on the mesa that was carved in by the Ute tribe? I was like, okay, now this is when you’re like, no, that’s not remotely true.
Corinna: That’s actually not how that happened.
LisaMarie: which I’m sure a lots of people would have to say, especially about the Thunderbird in particular or, you know, even things like the swan on the side of the mesa. You know, and you’re supposed to don’t plant your crops until the swan’s neck breaks. you know, those kind of little things. on the very front of the mesa, some people say it’s a bear, some people say it’s a rhino. That’s also contention sometimes.
Corinna: Well that’s what the mesa is known for is the rhinoceros population. Yes.
LisaMarie: Yep.
Lisa: Of course.
LisaMarie: It’s clearly a bear.
Lisa: And I know, I know Corinna, you mentioned one time that you wanted to hike up and try to find that location and just see what it looks like.
Corinna: I do. I have also circling back to Seth Anderson. read his tale. He almost died on the Thunderbird. Like. More than once.
LisaMarie: Yeah. hiking something and got lost.
Corinna: Yeah. Well, I think once was snow maybe related I don’t want to mistell that story. The other was like basically a rock slide. But I have a 14 year old son who likes to say things to me like don’t forget mom thrills kills when I’m telling him of the wild things I would like to go to like go rock climb the Thunderbird or something like that. I got four more years to constantly remind myself that my kid can’t be an orphan.
LisaMarie: I actually have. I went to the base of the Thunderbird this summer and I had never been up there. But being part of the planning commission, I went with other commissioners and our town trustees and town water public works and awesome fire department and people that do wildfire rescues and wildfire prevention. I was able to take some ATVs and go all the way up through our watershed. the cool part about touring that was seeing you know, as things need repaired in town as we look at the future about trying to protect our water supply here in Mesa County. It was very cool to go and look at all of that and understand it so we can make sure we get the correct funds allocated to help protect our stuff.
Anyways, coolest part is the one of the top of our part of our watershed is, is the bottom of the Thunderbird. I got up there and I thought I was going to. Well, I think I did cry. It was actually my birthday. but it was just very cool to see it up close. Because when you’re in far like in. Let’s say if you’re in Grand Junction and you’re looking east to the mesa, you see it so much more clearly. and it just still looks like this really large, large outcrop rock outcropping. but when you get really close to it it totally changes your whole perspective of how it looks. like all of that volcanic. It’s not basalt.
Lisa: I think it’s basalt.
LisaMarie: Is it basalt?
Corinna: It is basalt.
LisaMarie: Thank you.
Corinna: smarter than I look
LisaMarie: I don’t know my rocks right now. Huge outcropping of those rocks. But it is really kind of amazing to see up close.
Lisa: Yeah. All right. Four years. Maybe I’ll know how to rock climb by then. Probably not.
Corinna: Well, we got you. Will be fine.
Lisa: Just hoist me up.
Corinna: I know like if you do the rim trail hike even you can see it. there’s all kinds of cool rocks. Sorry, you said rocks. because there’s that there used to be like they used to pull gypsum like there’s a mine claim right there like just to the east when you’re going up that first pitch.
Lisa: Oh yeah.
Corinna: Right before you get to the rock that has the thing that that guy put on there. That little thing.
Lisa: which that mystery was solved.
Corinna: But yeah you can see like gypsum rock right there which I don’t know I find I think that’s really cool.
Lisa: Yeah. So.
LisaMarie: smoke break?
Lisa: You want to do smoke break?
LisaMarie: Yeah, keep going or smoke break.
Corinna: I’m always down for a smoke break.
LisaMarie: So we can regroup and think about what we other stories we can tell. So it’s not just us rambling.
Lisa: OK, to be continued.
Lisa: Okay.
LisaMarie: Alright. What are we talking about next?
Lisa: ghost stories or train stories or mine story.
Corinna: Yes, we could just start with the. We’ll just start with the mine and then. Or we’ll just start the Train, I don’t know.
Lisa: Oh, let’s start with the train. And then the train ties into the mine too. So. So I know one thing that somebody had asked me, I think it was Bill McDonald had said, you should do an episode about the trains. And I’m like, yeah, okay, that’s really interesting. But like, I don’t even know where to start with that. But I know something that I always wonder, especially when I’m laying awake in middle of the night listening to the trains, like, lose their minds. Is like, why do the trains make different sounds? Who brought it up first?
LisaMarie: I did.
Lisa: Okay.
LisaMarie: I live on one. Lisa Ann lives on one side of the tracks, and I live on the other side of the tracks. We both live in a close proximity to the train. And as I’ve been living closer to the train, so I grew up closer to where Golden Gate is. the trains have different sounds and different rumbles. So it has like a bigger, more boosty rumble to it if it’s obviously carrying something really heavy like coal and stuff like that. but I noticed that there’s different train horns and there’s different pitches apparently, depending on what type of train it is as well to the horn.
But I started to notice that there’s one conductor in particular that instead of just honking at the rail crossings, he comes around De Beque Canyon and just lays on the horn all the way through Palisade to like past maybe 34 road. I’m not sure where his madness stops, but it’s just very distinct, like, oh, there he is every time he does it. So someone had told me it like oh, well, you know why that is, right? I’m like, why? Well, apparently that conductor, his ex wife lives here and he wants to make sure that he hear. She hears him every time he comes through, town and wakes up. So that is the, tall tale legend that I heard about, the train and why it is so very noisy on occasions.
Lisa: Interesting.
Corinna: I have heard very similar. I live down by the river, not in a van, so I don’t get interrupted in my sleep from the trains as often as you two do. But I have heard that same story. I also know that legally the train conductors are required to blow their horn 20 yards before and after every railroad crossing. And because Palisade has so many roads and streets that cross over, it is easier if a conductor didn’t feel perhaps like lifting his hand up to just lay on that bad boy until he gets all the way out. And like, it’s like past the mine.
LisaMarie: Well safety first. Right. We want everybody to be safe. Not condoning not having honking of horns. It was just a funny story.
Lisa: Yeah, no, I love it because I know which one you’re talking about. And it does seem like there’s just one that just lays on the horn.
Corinna: People do love that story.
Lisa: Is it ex wife or is it just laziness yeah, who knows? Maybe a little bit of both.
Corinna: Probably combination of both. And that’s why he has an ex wife.
Lisa: Oh my God, that’s great. Okay, so that. So that takes us to the mine
Corinna: to the mine
Lisa: on the other side of the valley.
Corinna: Yes.
Lisa: And yeah, so I think a lot of people know that there’s a lot of coal mining history in town. Around town. And the one in particular.
Corinna: Yeah. And so there were like 13 mines total, from my understanding. Or somewhere around that number. from like the De Beque Cutoff Road. If you’re heading up the mesa that De Beque Cutoff road, like into the Bookcliffs. And like, I think the Carpenter Mine is probably one of the further ones out. And that’s closer to Fruita. having not grown up in an area known for mines, I grew up in eastern Pennsylvania and western PA, which is where all the coal mines are. So I don’t know nothing about no coal mining or I didn’t grow up knowing yet.
but when I moved here with a young boy, it’s one of the things that I made sure that, like, I talked to him about. And the Gearhart Mine, which is the mind that you can see if you are looking at the book, you’re standing in Palisade and you’re looking at the bookcliffs, depending on where you are, for the most part, you can see it. Sometimes you can be a little bit too close or not at quite the right angle, but pretty much. If you can see Mount Garfield, just about a quarter mile to the east of Garfield, you’ll see a big black mark. And if you’re closer and you look a little bit closer, just above that black mark is actually the old mine. Like pieces of the old mine.
And if you do that amazing hike up Mount Garfield. Love it so much. It’s brutal, but it’s great. but if you do that hike, you’ll see, you know, chunks and pieces of this big mine. So, I do wine tours as well as manage the gas station. so it’s one of the things I always like to point out to people, especially if they’re not from this area or they didn’t. You, you know, like me didn’t grow up in an area where you can just like look up and see things on the side of the mountain. It’s really cool, to point out. And you know, it was in practical purposes, it wasn’t a super profitable mine. I think they only took about 200,000 tons of coal out of it, which sounds, I mean it’s a lot of coal. But the De Beque Cutoff mine, they pulled closer like 4 million tons of coal out of. So like to see those, you know, size disparities, you know, they got it where they needed it, but that’s where a lot of the, you know, original orchards were planted by coal miners. Right. They mined coal in the winter and then tended their orchards all through the spring and summer. So, I think it’s a really cool part of Palisade’s like, visual history. You know, if you can visually look and see the mine or you can look up and see the Thunderbird. I think it’s one of the really unique parts of living in this little section of the valley. Like our view of Garfield is always that view. And so everybody else in the valley’s view is the opposite side view. So, you know, like I have a tattoo of Garfield, but it only makes sense if you know it from the Palisade view.
Lisa: And I have like a sketch of Garfield. And then somebody pointed out to me really early on, I bought it right after we moved here. And then they were like, that’s from the wrong side. It’s from an artist who lives in Junction. Right. So I’m like, oh, it is from the wrong side. Yeah. That’s funny. Yeah, it’s so amazing too. Like when you’re hiking up, like the stagecoach trail or you’re a cameo and hiking back past the shooting range, and you can just see these big deposits of coal like in the side of the cliff and it smells like coal. And like. Yeah, like you, from growing up in the middle of the woods and never having ever seen anything like that. It’s pretty amazing that you can actually touch coal. Like, in the ground.
Corinna: Yeah. there’s a really cool spot up the Cameo road. you can like stand in like they started maybe to dig out a hole for coal. Maybe it was just a personal mine, I don’t know. Because it’s about the size of your office.
Lisa: I climbed up in there. It, it’s my height.
Corinna: Right. Like, I mean you can could pretty much stand in there with your arms stretched out and it’s, you know, not much. It’s like 12ft deep. Like just deep enough for you to go and disappear. But then you know, like one step forward and you can easily be seen.
Lisa: Okay. Yeah. How are you guys doing?
Corinna: Well it’s Friday the 13th.
LisaMarie: True.
Corinna: Everything’s going well thus far. I will happily retell a tale that the historical society tells. I don’t think JoAnn or I love Priscilla and I think Priscilla would love for me to tell this story. it’s one of the great parts of that walking brochure. There’s. That walking brochure is fantastic. It really is. I love our historical society. They’ve done you know, a really good job putting all that online. But the story is if you’re on Main street and you walk to the end of the main street, there’s white house and it’s got white picket fence. It’s really super cute. I can’t remember which number it is on the walking tour. but it’s next door to the Crissey house, to the east. so that was one of the first houses built in Palisade. For who was then the notary public was Mr. Bancroft and his wife. And a notary public in the early 1900s was a super important job in a very small, you know, brand new town. Palisade was incorporated in 1904. The house was built in 1904. So you know, it really truly was one of the first Palisade homes on first street because that was the first street in Palisade.
Okay, so if you go to the end of Main street, next to the Crissey house is this white house, a white picket fence. It was built in 1904 for Mr. Bancroft and his wife. The wife’s brother was the builder whose name escapes me right now. And I am so sorry. I usually do know it, but. So he was the builder and he built the house. It’s a lovely house. It’s cute little house. It’s not even little. It’s just a very cute. It’s adorable. and then if you turn around and you continue your way down Main street and go to fifth in Main. the house on the corner of fifth and Main. And if you stand on fifth street and look at it, you’ll see that it is exactly the same house. Like he built her an identical house. There’s, it’s a twin, there’s another set, but that’s like the first set of, you know, twin houses. When I think of them now are like two side by side houses. But before the age of subdivisions and like house is always looking the same. They were usually very unique. So in that, you know, time, it was kind of weird to have two identical houses. But the wife’s house, the second house built is just a little bit nicer. Like its pitch is just a little bit steeper on the roof. So that makes it just a little bit bigger. there’s hand painted roses that they still have. They’re beautiful. And the people who own it now, have maintained it very well. It’s really, really beautiful. They, the gardens are very well taken care of, but there’s hand painted roses above the like front bay window and the door. Like the wife literally was like, you know how you built your sister’s house? I liked it. Just make it a little bit better. And he was like, okay.
Lisa: Oh I wonder if there’s rivalry between the sister and the sister in law then.
Corinna: You don’t know that I’ve looked, because if you look at old Palisade Tribunes it is literally like Mrs. LisaMarie Pinder went to De Beque to visit her cousin Mary. They had petit fours and returned back by 6 pm. That is what the old Palisade Tribunes were because I mean, you know, we’re a small town now.
Lisa: It was like Facebook at the time.
Corinna: literally. Yeah, but it’s. There are really cute little stories like that. You can go down to the park. you know, I think a lot of people, if you don’t look at the west side of the park, if you never wander that far over.
LisaMarie: to the migrant camp.
Corinna: To the migrant camp.
Lisa: Yeah in Riverbend you’re talking about.
Corinna: It’s such an interesting part of history. And then you can go see those cabins. Like you can see where they were and you can read this like great little thing about them. And then you can go up to Restoration. Restoration has I think seven or eight of those cabins. Carboy has one of those cabins. Carboy’s cabin is really cool because it’s open so you can go inside and like really look at it. And they don’t. Not that it’s got stuff. I mean they like chop literally off the one wall. They have a lot of great musicians that play in there. But they oriented it a little bit different. Like they turned it. So if you look out, if you look above the one window it says Garfield View. So you know that when it was at the camp it was like oriented that way. So when you looked out the window you saw Mount Garfield.
LisaMarie: Wow, cool.
Lisa: That’s so cool. I didn’t know that those were the actual cabins like at Restoration and Carboy.
LisaMarie: Oh yeah, they moved them all out of the camp.
Corinna: yeah.
Lisa: I just sort of have assumed they would have torn them down.
LisaMarie: No, people like were able to buy them. They bought them for super, super cheap.
Corinna: they were super cheap
LisaMarie: and they moved them.
Corinna: I mean it was literally like. I think it was, you know, I don’t want to say it was a dollar but it was something very
LisaMarie: very cheap.
Corinna: very cheap. And then because you know they had to the expense of moving them. You know it wasn’t until I moved here that I saw a man fix a tire with a blowtorch and some lighter fluid. Whoo. That was a day. So these are the men that were like yes, I can pick up that cabin and haul it up Suicide Hill.
LisaMarie: Imagine taking it all the way up there.
Corinna: No, can you fathom
Lisa: and they did it with a few of them.
Corinna: Yeah. Several. There’s at least a dozen of those old cabins up there on the mesa.
Lisa: You know, it’d be really fun to go around and try to find them all.
Corinna: yeah, well. And I’m sure that there
LisaMarie: That sounds like a great wine mission. You start at peachfork, and then you’re working your way through. It’s a great idea.
Corinna: A great idea.
Lisa: Okay, I’m gonna stop recording.
Corinna: fine
Lisa: but thank you both.
Corinna: thank you.
Lisa: I just know that I, know so many more stories, even more from you, so I can’t wait. People only get a little. Little tasting of what you have.
Lisa: All right, let’s. Ready, drink. Ready for drinks. Okay.
LisaMarie: Oh, I was gonna plug Gary.
Lisa: I can just. I’m gonna, like, paste all this stuff together. So don’t.
LisaMarie: Oh, let’s see.
Corinna: So start by saying, like, when you said that Gary moved here in 2020 so you can do it there and then she can feed it into that spot.
Lisa: You listen to tons of podcasts.
Corinna: Listen, I love you, Lis. I’m just trying to make your job easier.
Corinna: Hold on, are we not going to talk about having the only single of our group of, like, bajillion couples and how then I get to be the entertainment for the evening when I have these crazy stories? Like the time that I matched with the doctor on the Facebook dating and then found out that this man is one of the most prolific catfish in the valley?
Lisa: But wait, so would you. Would you not want to be the entertainment?
Corinna: no. I actually. I get to tell all the best tales.
LisaMarie: It’s very true.
Lisa: I know. I’m like, I can’t picture you not having a story or knowing something and not telling it.
Corinna: Yeah, no, imagine me not sharing.
LisaMarie: I also have a problem with showboating, so I relate to your problem.
Corinna: I don’t know what nonchalant is. I am always shalanting. I saw that meme and I was like, oh, my God. Someone described it.
LM: What did I tell you, great storytellers, right? Over cocktails at Fidel’s after we finished recording, we compared the differences between LisaMarie’s and Corinna’s versions of these myths and legends and wondered how many other versions are out there.
Are you familiar with these stories? Or maybe you know a slightly different version? Are there other Grand Valley myths and legends that we didn’t cover? If so, I’d love to hear from you. You can email me at lisa(at)postcardsfrompalisade.com. There’s a link to my email address in the show notes too. I’d love to share more stories on a future podcast episode.
The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend by Geoff Roper.
Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.