Go behind the scenes at Colorado’s largest wine producer, Carboy Winery. Barbie Graham, tasting room manager at Carboy Winery at Mount Garfield Estates in Palisade and sales and hospitality manager for the company globally, joins me to chat about how Carboy is making wine delicious, fun, and sustainable.
Barbie and I also chat about why she’d rather live in Colorado than California, how she was cured of wine snobbery and how she tries to pass that gift along, and about the variety of events Carboy hosts at their Mount Garfield Estates location.
Theme Music: Riverbend by Geoff Roper
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Transcript:
Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara. Palisade is most famous for its peaches, but there’s so much more happening in our little town. Join me as I chat with our community members to hear about how they are making Palisade a great place to live and visit.
Today we’re going behind the scenes at Colorado’s largest wine producer, Carboy Winery. Carboy Winery has four locations, including (obviously) the best one, in Palisade. Barbie Graham, tasting room manager at Carboy Winery at Mount Garfield Estates in Palisade and sales and hospitality manager for the company globally, joins me to chat about how Carboy is making wine delicious, fun, and sustainable.
Barbie and I also chat about why she’d rather live and work in Colorado than California, how she was cured of wine snobbery and how she tries to pass along that gift to others, about the variety of events Carboy hosts at their Palisade location, and lots more.
I spoke with Barbie right before the May 24th Bubbles and Blues kickoff of the Carboy Concert Series, so if you didn’t get to that show, you missed out, but there are still three more shows upcoming, one in June and two in October. You can find more info about those shows and buy tickets at https://www.carboywinery.com/event-calendar/happenings.
Stay tuned for a fun dive into a tank of Colorado wine on today’s Postcard from Palisade.
Lisa: Thank you again so much for coming in and speaking with me today.
Barbie: Of course. So my name is Barbie Graham. I am the tasting room manager at the Palisade location of Carboy winery. I’m also the sales and hospitality manager for the company globally.
Lisa: Oh, wow. Okay. So you do two jobs? At least.
Barbie: Yeah, at least two jobs. Yeah. We wear a lot of different hats in this industry in general, you know.
Lisa: Yeah. So tell me about your background. How did you get into the industry and what brought you to Carboy?
Barbie: So I’ve been working in food and beverage for over 20 years. I started out, like, working as a hostess in restaurants when I was like, 13, and then just kind of stuck with it. Got me through college, got me through graduate school, and then I ended up wanting to stay with it. I didn’t I initially thought I wanted to go into academia. And then after finishing school, realized that was not what I wanted to do. So then I started diving more into the wine side of things. Got my quartermaster sommelier certified sommelier, and then wset level three and was doing some stuff on the floor and up working as a buyer for some prominent wine programs. And then I managed Bin 707 Food Bar for several years. And then I moved back To California, which is where I’m from. And I was doing some consulting. And while I was out there, the Carboy team called me and asked me if I wanted to move back to Colorado and manage the Palisade location. I peripherally have known Tyzok, our lead winemaker, for a really long time. He also lived in California while I was out there and would come into places that I worked at. And then I met their whole investment team while I was working at Bin 707. They were scouting properties and they came in several times, and one of their investors kind of threw my name into the hat when they were looking for a new manager. And it was like, it was just divine timing. Like, it worked out perfectly. If they had called me a week earlier, I would have been so swamped with my consulting gig that I would not have answered. If they’d called me a week later, I would have already signed the contract for my next consulting project. And so it was just, like, the right timing. And I got out here in, like, two weeks from when they called me and just dove right in.
Lisa: Wow, that’s really cool. And. And, yeah, just the thing about, kind of timing and how it works out in your life is sometimes so interesting.
Barbie: Yeah, I didn’t really, it was definitely not in my plan to move back to Colorado at the time. I was really happy with what I was doing in California, and my ex, who I was with, wanted to stay in California, but it was just too good to be true. And when I came out here and I saw the production facility that they built at Palisade, that was really, like, pushed me to want to do it, because their sparkling wine production facility is an investment not just in Carboy, but, like, in the entire AVA, wine country out here. And I love this region. And I was like, oh, I want to be a part of this. This is, like, really cool what they’re doing, so I’m really glad I came back.
Lisa: You already touched on this a little bit already, but what makes Carboy Winery unique?
Barbie: I mean, it’s, for me, there’s so many things that make it unique. I think one of the things that really drew me towards it is I love this area. I love the Grand Valley. I love Grand Junction, I love Palisade. And same with. When I was at Bin 707 working for Josh Niernberg, he really had like a lot of vision of what he sees this whole area moving towards and kind of changing the cultural landscape. And I feel like Carboy embraces that on a statewide level of trying to like, Colorado’s like a beer state. I feel like Carboy’s trying to make people see it as a wine state. And that’s something I really appreciate, especially coming from, I was born and raised in Santa Barbara, California, and I lived in the Bay Area for a long time before I came out here. And I’ve seen firsthand how much wine country and food and beverage can shape the culture of a place and create like long lasting, sustainable economy and jobs. And it’s tourism, but it’s, it’s different than just like coming through and taking a picture. It’s like people want to stay for multiple days. They want to come and hang out. And it’s craft, you know, and wine in general is like art, science, craft, farming, agriculture, all these things combined. I think Carboy, they just, they have a really unique business methodology as well as investment in the area out here. So they started as negotiants and were purchasing grapes. And their Littleton location was the first location. They were restaurateurs, which also kind of speaks to me because I come from the restaurant background. And then they expanded to Breckenridge and Denver. And then were looking to purchase vines in Palisade. And I remember working at Bin 707. You know, I already knew a lot of the winemakers out here, a lot of people growing grapes out here through our wine program there. And people were like a little afraid of Carboy coming to town. They were like, oh, they’re the big boys. They’re gonna buy all the grapes. We’re not gonna be able to like, you know, we’re not gonna able to have a hold on it. Which is kind of ironic because comparative to like a California winery, we’re very, very micro or tiny.
Lisa: For Colorado, though, it’s big.
Barbie: For Colorado, we are the biggest winery in Colorado. You kind of have to have some gumption to like, be the big boys and to be the ones that are like, we’re gonna be the biggest and we’re also gonna be the best. We’re not trying to be watered down product or something that’s like not high quality. Like, the goal is to be the first wine that people taste that’s a Colorado wine, so that when people try it, it’s really good. And that motivates them to come out to wine country, go to all the other wineries, spend their money at places that don’t have the same ability to market and the same diversified business perspective that Carboy has. And I think that’s really cool. And then when I saw, like I said, when I saw the production facility, that really just blew my mind because I had been to that Mount Garfield Estates location when it was Mount Garfield Winery. And you know, they didn’t have the patio, they didn’t have the vines, they didn’t have the production facility. It was very minimal compared to what it is now. So just seeing the investment was already I was like, wow, this is. They’re really like putting their money where their mouth is. But the production facility is the biggest Charmat sparkling wine production facility in the US, outside of California, which is awesome. And it really speaks to our terrior out here. Like, we know we can reliably grow a lot of new world cultivars, right? Hybrid grapes, modern varieties. And modern variety grapes tend to produce high acidity, very perfumey wine, which may not be stellar if you’re going for a single varietal still wine. It could be. We do some like that that are really good, but it’s excellent for sparkling wine base because the way the sparkling wine is made, you want that initial fermentation to be like in the 10 to 11% alcohol range and high acidity because you’re adding in another fermentation to that. And perfumyness works really well in bubbly wine. So it’s like speaking to what does well here and what grows well here. And I think that for me is really cool because I think one of the things that’s challenging about the wine industry is that it is so bound by tradition that it can often be exclusivist. And to be in a place in a region where we can afford to be experimental. Right. We’re not Napa, where everyone’s like, where’s my 16% Cabernet Sauvignon? Like, we can produce whatever wine we want. And people are just so shocked to find out that we have wine here, that they’re willing to give it a try. And so to then say, okay, how can we do this in a way that works with the environment that we have? It’s very a unique AVA. We have very different benefits and challenges to places like California as far as, like, how we grow grapes. And to say, okay, like, how can we fit our production into what works out here? Let’s build a sparkling wine facility. Like, I was just. My mind was blown. And then to do that, we also have a bottling line where we. You have to have a specific type of line to counter pressure the bottles when you have bubbles already in the wine. And the facility is big enough to where we can produce sparkling wine for other people, we can make way more wine than we can sell. Which affords us the opportunity to help our friends and neighbors here who do not have the capital to invest in building a facility like that. And that’s amazing. Like, if people want to do high quality sparkling wine, we can do that for them. And we can charge them less than you would be able to buy bulk bottles from California, which is, I think a lot of people think of wine, like, if it has your label on it, that means you made it. That is far from the case. Most people are purchasing wine that’s already made and putting their label on it for things like bubbly. But we can do it with their fruit, which is, I don’t know which just so cool. Like, it’s so awesome. And then also, I think wine is a wasteful industry. And it’s also an industry of indulgence. Right. Like, it’s not the kind of thing. Nobody needs wine. I mean, I need wine, my soul needs wine.
Lisa: We can live without it. Like maybe we wouldn’t enjoy life without it, but you can be alive.
Barbie: Yeah. And, like, the, you know, the climate has changed a lot since I got into the industry, and a lot of new challenges are presented by that. And I think Carboy is, like, really walking the talk when it comes to sustainability and when it comes to, like, how can we make wine in a way that benefits and doesn’t detract from all the things everybody in Colorado cares about. Right. We love the outdoors. We love wild spaces. We want to keep the water sources going. Like we have all these things that we care about that if you’re in an industry that’s waste based, it’s kind of challenging. And so, you know, they’re 1% for the Planet members. They are members of Zero Food Print, which takes 1% added to every tasting room check and donates it to this nonprofit that supplies compost to farms. So we’ve like helped hundreds of farms get compost. Even some of our other partner wineries in Colorado get compost. We have a project with Protect our Rivers doing a wine for them, which they do a lot of cleanup, especially on the South Platte near our Littleton location. And then we have a lot of sustainability measures in the vineyard. We have cover crop that imparts nitrogen phosphorus in the soil. It keeps the soil a lot cooler and retains the water in it. We have micro spray irrigation. So we only water the vines for like five hours every like two to three weeks.
Lisa: Oh, wow.
Barbie: Isn’t that mind blowing?
Lisa: That is mind blowing.
Barbie: Yeah.
Lisa: I thought you were gonna say five hours every day.
Barbie: Yeah, that’s what I mean. From like at my house, I much I have to irrigate. It’s like crazy that that’s how little we have to water. And I mean that is, you know, you do want grapes to be like a little stressed. Like you want them to have to reach their vines way down to pull up all those mineral content from the soil. But it’s just really impressive to me how little they have to do. And we are not organically certified but we use organic inputs in the field, which is awesome. And then we also have like our tap wine program. So most of the carbon footprint from wine, like more than 50% of the carbon footprint from wine is from the manufacturing and shipping of bottles. The glass weighs as much as the wine inside of it. And you can’t like sanitize, like reuse glass. You can do that for liquor and beer, but for some reason in wine that’s against the law. Some crazy glass lobbyists must have really pushed for that. So we have a tap wine program. All of our locations have glycol chilled Brite tanks. We feed them with argon so that it prevents them from getting oxidized. And then we ship the wine in totes out to each location so we don’t have to manufacture and ship all these bottles. So we’ve saved over a million bottles from production by doing that. And we have growler programs. You can like fill your growler up and bring the growler back and it’s like, I don’t know, it’s really cool. I’ve never, I’ve never been to any other winery that does something like that.
Lisa: No.
Barbie: Yeah, it’s really cool to be a part of it.
Lisa: And I remember back when Carboy started in the Front Range, you know, about 10ish years ago or so.
Barbie: Yeah, almost nine years ago. Yeah, 2016.
Lisa: Nine years ago. And it was really revolutionary to have a high quality wine served on tap out of a keg.
Barbie: Yeah.
Lisa: You know, a refillable keg. that was just. And to be able to buy wine in a refillable growler. That was such a new concept at the time and everybody was talking about it. And I think now it’s maybe become a little bit more. It’s been long enough and you’ve proven the success of that method and the fact that you can have high quality wine like that. Maybe it’s less, maybe it’s less revolutionary or wild now. But do you still deal with any like wine snobbery from people about, you know, if you’re pouring them a wine out of the tap versus a bottle?
Barbie: Yes.
Lisa: Do you still get that and then how do you deal with that?
Barbie: We definitely do. There will always like wine is a. It invites snobs. You know, it rewards snobbery. And I think also part of wine is status. And so people want the status of a 750 milliliter bottle with a real cork in it. And so part of it is talking about. I was just share, like you know, one of the reasons we did this is because Craig Jones, he like got growlers wine off tap in Italy. He was like, oh this is so cool. Like he’s our main investor and he’s amazing. He does so much for the company. And so that was something that he brought back. And so it is not an American-born idea or a value based product born idea. It is a craft high quality product idea. And then I always, always just take people back and show them what the wine lives in when it’s on tap. Because I think a lot of people are expecting like a sixtel keg like you, you know like you’d see like your house.
Lisa: Yeah, a dirty old keg.
Barbie: But we have like 225 gallon Brite tanks and they’re chilled with glycol and fed with argon, which means you know, if you open a bottle of wine, whether you’re at your house or in a restaurant or in a tasting room, and you just put the cork in that and then put it in the fridge or leave it on the counter, two, three days go by, that wine’s gonna be oxidized. It’s not gonna taste the same as it did when you opened it. Off the tap, other than the little amount that’s in the line, which is exposed to oxygen, which we just pour off at the beginning of each shift, so that we just pour it and dump it, everything is completely untouched. So the wine at the top of that tank is gonna taste the same as the wine at the bottom of that tank. And then when you talk about the sustainability impact of it, most people, you know, all of us, we are so detached from the products that we enjoy. Like, we just don’t know what goes into it. And when you, when you start to realize, like oh, wait, the glass weighs the same as, if not more than the wine inside of it. And we’re putting stuff on trucks and shipping it, like, that’s a massive carbon impact. And if we’re gonna be able to continue to drink wine, you know, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now, we all collectively in the industry and as consumers have to start making shifts to wine that is more sustainable, because the more carbon the atmosphere, the hotter the atmosphere gets. The hotter the atmosphere gets, the more challenging it is to grow wine. And we really see that in this area, it is so hot here, we have much less annual precipitation and much higher temperatures than we did like 20 years ago. And so, you know, when you’re sitting outside and it’s 105 degrees, you’re like, see, it’s hot out. Don’t you want to help the planet?
Lisa: Exactly.
Barbie: And then also just letting people taste. I always think, especially in Colorado, you really have to let your palate speak. Because I know as a wine buyer for some high profile wine programs in California, I probably would not have taken a tasting of Colorado wine or of new world cultivars. I would’ve been like, I don’t wanna taste hybrids and I’m not trying anything in Colorado. Because I was a wine snob and because I was in this culture that has a very limited perspective of, like, where good wine comes from. And that’s typical of, you know, the premier wine regions in the United States and the world over. But when you actually taste it, you’re like, oh, this is really good. Then you’re like, yeah, believe it or not, like, this is Traminette. You’ve never heard of it, right? You’re like, why is this so good? Like’s you really. I think that’s like the fun of modern wine and of regional wine and of accessibility in wine. Like getting wine out of this, like, you know, old white person category that it’s always been in and like opening it up, I mean, like, it doesn’t have to be super expensive. It doesn’t have to be like some fancy pinkie up thing. You can drink it out of any glass that you want to drink it out of. And just like, if it tastes good, drink it. Like, if you like it, drink it. But it is a challenge.
Lisa: So you’re a recovered wine snob?
Barbie: I’m totally a recovered wine snob, yes.
Lisa: That’s awesome. That kind of leads into, I think one of the interviews, one of the things that you said was that Carboy’s mission is to open wine up to the widest audience that you could or that you can.
Barbie: Yes, absolutely.
Lisa: So how do you do that? How do you make it appealing to more than just the old wine snobs?
Barbie: I mean, I think first of all, the level of hospitality that you get when you walk into our tasting room. Like, you know, in my experience in wine, there’s a lot of places you go in and everyone kind of fits that same generic category. You walk into our taste room and like, people have tattoos. We’ve got different colors of hair, we’ve got piercings, we’ve got like, this is not a place where you have to fit a certain mold to work with us. And it’s also just being really welcoming and recognizing that, especially out here in Palisade, and this is different at every location because our locations are all in different neighborhoods. We have different demographics that go in. But in Palisade, this is a wine region where a lot of people, we are the first winery that people have ever been to before. Like, they’re coming out here on a bachelorette trip and they’re 22 and they’ve never had wine. And like, I had someone say, oh, I don’t really ever drink wine. And I was like, oh, what do you like to drink? She was like, well, I love champagne. And I was like, well, you might not know this, but like, champagne’s actually wine, like, it’s like, that’s a lot of the level of people that we’re interacting with. And so just being like super nonjudgmental and like, you don’t have to know anything about wine to enjoy it. And recognizing that no one walks into a brewery and is like, oh my god, I really wish I knew more about beer. Like, that’s literally how people feel when they walk into a winery. They already feel like, ashamed of their lack of knowledge before they even get up to the counter. And so just being super recognizing of that. I mean, like, no, like this is a place where you can just taste whatever you want, enjoy yourself. And then I think also creating experiences besides just wine. Right? Because if you’re like, okay, I’m gonna go listen to a band, or I’m gonna go do a paint and sip class, or I’m gonna go to yoga, like, then you can get in without that feeling of like, oh, I’m gonna be you know asked what I taste in this wine. Like I’m gonna be judged for my knowledge or lack thereof. It’s like, if you’re going for a full experience, then it makes a little easier. Like there’s not as much of a barrier of entry. Or you can just drink a wine slushie.
Lisa: Yeah, right.
Barbie: There’s always that.
Lisa: Yeah. Like the events are not all centered around wine. It’s wine is sort of the side benefit of doing this thing.
Barbie: And that’s like, I think especially that was the other thing, other than being so impressed with the production facility when I came out here, that really stood out to me is just the space at the Palisade location is, I mean, it’s first of all it’s stunningly gorgeous. Like, it’s hard to even conceive of a more beautiful space to show up to work. It’s like gorgeous views and just, it’s just stunning. And then also this space, it’s like, it’s a venue, you know. And when I first started with the company, they were really new to this location. They were just over their second year there. Or no, just over their first year. April 2022 they opened. So they were like a year and a couple months into being Carboy at that location. And. And you know, they’d been turning on the open sign and welcoming people in. But they hadn’t really been putting the space to full use. And I mean, I walked out and I saw the back and I was like, okay, this is a venue at a winery, not a winery with a venue. Like, it is primarily a space to go experience things while you’re drinking wine as opposed to primarily a space where you’re drinking wine. Like it’s got more potential for so many things that are not wine related, that bring in people from all walks of life and then by doing that, break down the barriers of who thinks they fit in in a winery.
Lisa: I love that. So just going back to winemaking really quick before we jump over to events. So, and I think this is a positive thing. But to me, the number of wines that Carboy makes is almost overwhelming
Barbie: it is!
Lisa: because there are so many different varieties and there’s so many sparkling wines. And it’s like such a treat to me. To number one, everybody is always so friendly when we show up and the space is amazing. It’s like one of my favorite places to hang out. Especially on Sunday afternoons.
Barbie: Yeah, I know. You’re part of Sunday crew.
Lisa: Yeah, but with that number of wines, I mean there are so many. What tend to stand out as some of the fan favorites or like which ones tend to rise to be more popular?
Barbie: It really depends on the season. You know, wine is seasonal, but our on-season is summertime, April to November. And so definitely sparkling wine is our top seller. Sparkling, the Grand Brut Rose, which I know you’ve had before, the Blanc de Blanc, those are like far and away the biggest sellers. I think a big part of that is that it is hot. People want something easy and fun and relaxing. And I think also maybe because I love bubbles, so I always force people to try the bubbles.
Lisa: and they’re so good!
Barbie: They’re so good. And then also, some of the things that we’re more known for that are not sparkling, I would say Cabernet Franc. Cabernet Franc is one of the better known varietals in the valley in general. So people tend to ask for that and seek it out. We also do really well in whites with our Riesling, is very popular. Our Blan.CO white blend, which is blend of all Colorado fruit. Sauvignon Blanc always sells. Sauvignon Blanc is nationwide the most selling white wine, most consumed white wine, so that sells. And then things that have had some accolades. So our Teroldego won Governor’s cup two times. So people often ask for that. And then we have some standouts for New World cultivars, modern variety grapes. Our Chambourcin is really popular, which is one of the New World cultivars. And that’s a red dry, single varietal, hybrid grape, which is unusual and surprising for me to like how popular it is. But that’s the wine, as soon as we get on the shelf, people come in and they’re like, I’m gonna buy a case. And then, like, two months later, it’s gone. And I mean, it really does change. It also depends on what our staff likes. We are very privileged to have a lot of wine training and a lot of people in the company that have, you know, letters after their name regarding wine, which is awesome. Kellen Brewer, who does all the training education for the company, comes out several times a year and does sensory trainings with our team. You know, I have a lot of background in tasting and training on wines, so we get to really dive deep into, like, what our team likes and then help push the things that we know we enjoy for people to try. And the beauty of wine over other types of beverage is like, you can just taste as many as you want. It’s like going to, like, a gelato store. You know, I don’t even care if you buy a glass. You should just taste it. Like, tasting wine is one of the rare pleasures in life. Taste all the wine. And so it really lets people kind of experiment and, like, see what they like. And it is an overwhelming amount. But that’s also one of the privileges of being in Colorado. You know, you go wine tasting in Willamette Valley, you’re gonna, every place you go, you’re gonna taste like six Pinot Noirs, which is fine. I love Pinot Noir. But that’s just how it is. You go to Napa, you’re like Cabernet, Chardonnay.
Lisa: Chardonnay.
Barbie: You know, you’re not gonna get anything else other than that. And out here, one of the cool things about Colorado wine country is we have tons and tons of different fruit. In the 16 acre plot that we have at the Mount Garfield Estate location, we have Albarino, Teroldego, Syrah, Cab Franc, Traminette, some others I’m sure that I can’t remember right now. And then we have like another 16 acres that’s all new world cultivars. I mean, we probably have, you know, more than 15 types of grapes that we just our fruit that we grow. And so it is. It definitely, sparkling wine dominates. I think that’s also bachelorette party syndrome. We are a bachelorette party mecca. And who doesn’t want sparkling rose when you’re celebrating your friend getting married?
Lisa: Absolutely.
Barbie: But I think, yeah, we’re the bubbles people.
Lisa: And also what helps with that too, I think, is producing it the way that you do in the Charmat method. It helps it be more affordable.
Barbie: Absolutely.
Lisa: I think. I mean, I am all for champagne, champagne style produced wines, aging in the bottle and whatever, but they’re so much more expensive.
Barbie: Yeah.
Lisa: And so it is a treat to see you can get a really good, really great tasting, like, quality bottle of bubbles for not that much money.
Barbie: Yeah, $34, you get a bottle of bubbles. Other places you go, they’re nineteen dollar a glass for methode champenoise. You know, it’s a huge price difference. And it also, for me, I do love champagne, but I definitely drink more Charmat method wine. Whether it’s Carboy wine or Prosecco, it tends to be like, a little bit crisper, a little bit lighter, a little bit less yeasty, which for my palate and for my susceptibility to headaches, works better for my body. And it’s, you know, comparative to doing forced carbonation, which there are other people out here that do that. It’s not, forced carbonation is not a bad thing, but the bubbles are a lot bigger and you really have to commit to finishing that bottle. Like, if you don’t finish the bottle, it’s gonna be flat like a can of Coke.
Lisa: it’ll be a still wine.
Barbie: Yeah, exactly. But Charmat, it’s like you can put the little cap thing on it and put it in the fridge and it’ll be good for a few days. And, you know, I think, yeah, I think the affordability part of it is definitely a big thing. And just ease of drinking. Like, we finally, in wine, not just at Carboy, but in general in wine culture have gotten out of the Suckling era of really big, really chewy tannic reds. You know, it used to be that wine reviewers and wine writers and wine judges led the palette of America. And now we’re in this era, which is really pushed by the younger drinking generation, which is not typical in wine. Wine is typically driven by older drinkers. Most people don’t even get into wine until they’re, like, in their 30s. But people now are looking for something that just genuinely tastes good. And it’s like, fun on the palate. And I think, you know, the rise of sparkling water and like, you’re drinking a La Croix right now.
Lisa: always!
Barbie: Who doesn’t drink bubbly water you know? And, like, I think beer drinkers transitioning into wine, lean into sparkling wine. And sparkling wine, wine nationwide is in contraction. Sparkling wine is the only category of wine that’s still in a growth phase. And I think that just speaks to, like, what people are enjoying right now.
Lisa: Yeah.
Barbie: You know.
Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. This is sort of a random question, but, is there anything behind. So when Carboy did purchase the Mount Garfield Estate, I know they kept the name Carboy Winery at Mount Garfield Estate. Was there anything behind keeping that name and honoring it instead of just retiring it and calling it Carboy Winery Palisade?
Barbie: Yeah. I love that you asked that because, people ask it and also get confused about it all the time because of Google Maps and like the branding of it. So Mount Garfield Estate is the name of the vineyards. So they’re, in wine, generally speaking, vineyards, they usually have their own name. And the better fruit you can cultivate, the higher price point you can then sell that fruit for and charge for your wine. You know, there’s this phrase people like to say, if you want to make a little bit of money and wine, invest a lot. Farming grapes is a money losing industry, especially here in Colorado. if you’re looking at places like Napa, a ton of grapes goes for around $10,000 to $12,000. If you’re looking at places like the Grand Valley AVA, ton of grapes goes for maybe $1,500 to $2,000. So we literally are not able to recoup the amount of money that we put into growing the grapes by selling them.
Lisa: like a ton, how much would a ton be, like, acreage wise?
Barbie: I wish I could answer that question better. That would be a James question. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t farm the grapes. I do everything in the front. James, James does all the back stuff. But, it’s. I mean, I think we are probably getting two to three tons an acre. That would be a guess.
Lisa: Okay.
Barbie: Yeah.
Lisa: So, yeah, that’s not a lot of money.
Barbie: No. Oh, no. We vineyards are never in the black, ever, out here. I don’t know of anyone that is. And that’s one of the reasons that like, after that bad freeze in 2020, people just didn’t replant grapes. They planted peaches. Peaches are the cash crop out here. You just can’t really make money on grapes. You just can’t recoup the amount that it takes to grow it. And so one of the ways that, down the road because, everything in wine is like very future oriented. Right. Like you plant vines and you’re not gonna be able to get a viable harvest off those vines for three years. And then if you’re making a red, it’s gonna go in a barrel for a couple years and then in the bottle for another couple years. So you’re looking like six, seven years down the road minimum, until you’re gonna see a return on that farming. As far as selling grapes goes though, vineyards that have well known names, I think, like a good example would be like, Emeritus Vineyards in California, they are a really well known Pinot Noir place. People will pay for grapes that are from vineyards that are known to have quality fruit. So maintaining. Yeah. The name of your vineyard, like at Mount Garfield Estates. If we do, let us pray, get to a point where we know that we are reliably getting really good fruit off of those vines every year. And we, like everyone else in the Grand Valley, both use our own grapes for production. We buy grapes from our neighbors and we sell grapes to our neighbors. The Grand Valley produces 85% of the grapes grown in Colorado. And that, I mean, there’s like 200 something wineries in Colorado and only 30 in the Grand Valley. So we are exporting a lot of our grapes to other Colorado wineries in general in this AVA. And so having a vineyard name that has really good fruit is a part of it. And paying homage not just to the winery that was there before us, but to Mount Garfield. Trying to link together the standout things that make the Grand Valley AVA special. Because when you are in a regional wine country, like people in wine, wine professionals, we don’t exist to them. Right. Like, they don’t know that we exist. And people come out here and I remember when I first moved out here, people were like, Mount Garfield. And I was kind of like, is that a mountain? Doesn’t look like it, kind of looks like a bump, you know, not really like a mountain. But its like claiming these things and being like, you know, when you’re sitting on the patio at Carboy, you are staring at Mount Garfield and like, paying honor to like, this is our AVA. This is what we have to offer. It is not well known. It is niche, it is regional, it is small, it is barely existent. And yet we are really proud of it. And we’re doing things that are really awesome and different and we want people to know: we’re like, you’re at Mount Garfield Estates. And yes, it’s Carboy. And all of our locations also have different identities. We like to put ‘at Mount Garfield Estate’ so that people know we are in the vines. We are where the grapes are grown. I was at this training put on by CAVE, our local nonprofit recently, where they were talking about, consumer recognition. I think I think they said, I’m pretty sure these are the numbers. Palisade peaches have 75% consumer recognition in Colorado. People know peaches come from Palisade. Colorado wine, less than 40%. So people are not even, that live in the state, are not aware that we are growing wine here. And so, like, the more that we can, like, lean into that and when people go to the Carboy website, a lot of people go to Carboy in Denver and Littleton. They don’t even know they’re at a winery. Right. They think it’s like a wine bar or part of the restaurant. So our Littleton location has Angelo’s Taverna, which is an Italian restaurant, at it. And all the time people come to the tasting room and I’m like, have you been to Carboy before? No. Oh. And I tell them where it is. Oh, we’re like right next to Breckenridge Brewery on South Santa Fe in Littleton. Oh, we go to Angelo’s once a week. I’m like, you know where you get wine when you’re waiting for your table? That’s Carboy. Right next to that is a gigantic production facility and barreling room where we make all of our still wine. People don’t even know it exists. And so trying to like, link together each location with its sort of brand identity. We have the Gold Pan Saloon is which we own, which is connected to the Carboy in Breckenridge. We have Apres, which is like a fun, like kind of public market, community hub type of space at our Denver location, right next to Trader Joe’s in Governors Park. And then we have Mount Garfield Estates in Palisade. They’re all very different. I think we’re the best because this is where we grow and make the wine.
Lisa: Absolutely. It feels the most. I mean, it feels the most like you would picture: I’m going to a winery and that’s what you would picture.
Barbie: Yeah, exactly. You’re like in the vines.
Lisa: I don’t know if this is still something that y’all do, but the grey water recycling here. Is that something that still happens?
Barbie: Yeah, yeah, we recycle all of our grey water.
Lisa: That’s awesome.
Barbie: Yeah, it is awesome. It’s great. I mean, it’s something that, you know, when you live in a place with less than 10 inches of precipitation a year, like, you have to do everything you can. So recycle our grey water. We’re currently in the grant writing phase of getting a grant for solar. Our goal is to cover the top of our production facility with solar panels so that we’ll be able to have grey water and solar and just basically be as as little usage, energy use as possible.
Lisa: Yeah.
Barbie: And then our Littleton location, I think it is silver rated for green buildings for Denver, like their green ratings. so yeah, we’ we’re trying to do all the little things that we can.
Lisa: Switching over to events and all the different events Carboy hosts, we’ve touched on a little bit.
Barbie: Yes.
Lisa: But there’s a lot.
Barbie: There’s a lot.
Lisa: And I love that. I always love that. But, yeah, you have regular music, food trucks, the weekly Friday events, the Sunday yoga class that you teach. Is there like a staff favorite event that y’all host that you all really enjoy having?
Barbie: I mean, I’ll speak for myself. I don’t know. I feel like the staff, as long as it’s busy, they’re pretty happy. I think for as far as our, like, monthly events go, I love the Pen and the Glass open mic, which is a spoken word open mic that’s in collaboration with Western Colorado Writers Forum. They’re an amazing group that puts on all types of events for writers locally. And I have an MFA in poetry and I like, wanted to have more outlets for people to showcase their work. And we get like, between 20 and 40 people out, like, just being super vulnerable, reading their stuff, getting up there and sharing their work. I love that event. I think as far as our annual events go, the concert series are amazing. And I also love our wellness and wine fair. I feel like wine is, wine is obviously not a health drink. Right? Like, we all know that. But comparative to things like liquor or beer, wine tends to be something that people drink when they’re gonna have, like, a few drinks. Like, people aren’t gonna be like, yeah, let’s go get wasted. Let’s pop a bottle of chardonnay. You know, like, those are just. It’s just like, a different type of drinking. And, I feel like they kind of feed into each other in that way. And so for wellness and wine, we have, like, 24 vendors that are local vendors and fitness, wellness, and personal services that come out. And we do demo classes like yoga, barre, and Pilates, meditation, and just. I like the events where we get to, like, showcase the kind of cultural offerings that we have here and, like, add something that doesn’t exist in Palisade to the roster. Which is also why the concert series is so cool, because, you know, there’s a lot of people here, a lot of wineries here, I should say, that are doing somewhat of what we’re doing on our weekends, where we’re, like, featuring local food trucks. We’ve got our local neighbors and friends playing music, and that’s amazing. And we want our local community to be able to be showcased. Like, we have live music every Saturday, food trucks every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. And then also, there’s just not a lot of ways to showcase artists that are not our local friends and neighbors. Like, especially in Palisade. In Junction, you know, we have Los Colonias, we have Mesa Theater.
Lisa: Right.
Barbie: Palisade, there’s just really not any venues out here for stuff like that.
Lisa: Right, there’s not a big enough venue with, like, really great sound quality.
Barbie: Yeah. Except for now, there’s Carboy. And we, you know, we would not have been able to do any of, all of these events. These are all 100% homegrown. Like, we literally just went to our team, and we were like, what can we collectively do and offer? Like, I’m like, I’m a yoga teacher. I love poetry. Like, let’s do these things. Clint Richards is our production manager, and he was like, well, like, I love music. Like, let’s put on some shows. And so he invested a lot of money into an amazing sound system and uses all of these connections that he has nationwide with all these artists to bring in people that you would otherwise just not see in the Grand Valley. And it’s really cool to get some of these bigger artists into Palisade, especially at like a boutique outdoor venue that’s like not. I mean I love Mesa Theater, don’t get me wrong. But we are not Mesa Theater.
Lisa: It’s a different vibe.
Barbie: It’s a different vibe. It’s a very different vibe. And it’s so cool to be like under the stars in the vines and getting to see like world class acts. People that have, you know, toured nationally and internationally at this cool little venue where there’s like not. You’re not gonna be shoulder to shoulder, jammed in with people. Like we cap it at like 180 tickets, which is in the amount of space that we have plenty of room to like set down a blanket, get up and dance, hang out, have it feel relaxed and get to see amazing shows with great sound quality. It’s like something that, you know, when we were talking about like what can we do with this? James and Clint and I were all like, god, wouldn’t this be cool if we could do this? Kind of like we just kind of selfishly are making things that we want to attend. And just hoping that other people want to come too. And it’s been really successful and like, you know, we’ve seen not just with Carboy, but in general Palisade wine country grow more into this like let’s offer something more than just wine. Which is amazing. And since I first moved to the Grand Valley in 2016, we are world away from where we were then, you know, now there’s like something to actually do. There’s stuff to go experience and like, the more I’m a big believer in just like arts and culture being a driver of regional identity. And I think that being able to offer that and to like and we couldn’t do alone. I just want to say that like we have amazing sponsors that partner with us to do this stuff. And without those sponsors, there’s no way that we could do this. We just simply can afford the quality of artists and the quality of sound that it takes by charging ticket prices. We would just have to be charging more.
Lisa: Exactly. Keeping the ticket prices reasonable. So people can actually afford them.
Barbie: Yeah, we want our general admission to be under $50 and our VIP to be under $100. And if we’re gonna do that, we need help to do it from the community. And so it’s been amazing to see just, like, the outpouring of support from people that also want to see these things offered in the community and, like, want to show up and partake in it. It’s. It’s been really heartwarming and it’s just cool to see the growth and then to, like, see how much the artists enjoy it and how much the crowd enjoys it. It’s super rewarding.
Lisa: That’s so cool. I’m a big proponent of making your own fun. And that’s, like, another thing here. Like, it’s related to. You’re talking about with wine you can kind of we have this lack of expectations so we can do whatever we want sort of like, with events and things here too. It’s like, if you want to do something, you probably can figure out how to do it.
Barbie: Absolutely. Yeah.
Lisa: People are probably gonna be supportive.
Barbie: Yeah, that’s what’s been so cool. Like, with the open mic thing with Western Colorado Writers Forum, I literally just, like, emailed Melody Jones, who’s the president, and was like, hey, I wanna do this? And like, three days later it was on the calendar. And she comes out every time and, like, facilitates and hosts. It’s amazing, you know, and like, our paint and sip person, she’s like a local school teacher who’s like, oh I’ll come once a month and teach a paint and sip class. And, like, we do hat making with Sarah Moon of Bloom and Brim. And like, she’s our neighbor, you know? And like, that’s what’s so cool about Palisade in general is like, everything is literally like, our community. Like, what do we genuinely actually have to offer? And it’s so different than big corporate kind of like, I don’t know, there’s, in the higher, higher input markets, like in California, you know, a lot of those wineries are owned by big corporations, and you just don’t have as much leeway to do things that are quite as personal as the way that we are able to do them out here. Like, when I came into the company, I was like, yeah, want to teach yoga. It was like. James was like, okay, go for it. You know, there was no. There was literally no pushback on any of this stuff. We were just like, I think we should try to do this. And it’s like, okay, well, if you’re willing to, like, put in the elbow grease and we can find people in the community that are willing to support us, we can make it happen. And, like, it’s cool to see at the other wineries too, because, you know, people are like, oh, you guys are doing so much. Like, how can we do it? I’m like, well, you don’t want to do what we’re doing because you don’t have Clint to do the sound. You know, like, you don’t have me who has like got a background in poetry and is a yoga teacher. Like, you want to talk to your team, see what they have to offer and offer something unique that is genuine and authentic. And is like really what you like, bringing your own skill sets to the table. And that’s what creates regional identity. That’s what makes it so that when you stop and you actually get off the highway and drive through town here, you get to see what the people are actually like that live here. You know, it’s not like we’re not doing this to like, oh, we just wanna make money. What other events can we do just to get people in the door? We’re doing this because it’s like, no, this is what we love. Like, we wanna share what we love with other people. And over a glass of wine. It’s the best way to do it.
Lisa: As residents here, we just get to benefit from that. So it’s great.
Barbie: Yeah.
Lisa: So going back to the concert series though. So this weekend is the kickoff, the first event.
Barbie: First event.
Lisa: Can you talk a little bit about the four concerts in the series and what’s upcoming after this weekend?
Barbie: Yeah. So this weekend is Bubbles and Blues. It is our annual event celebrating all things sparkling wine and blues music. We are so excited. We have Omar Coleman coming out from Chicago, Lightning Malcolm coming from Mississippi. And that’s our kickoff. And then we have Midsummer Music Fest is June 21st, the Saturday or the third Saturday in June. And that’s our like Summer Solstice celebration. So we have three bands, we have two food trucks, we have tiny tattoos, we have tarot card reading, we have like, it’s like a full-on festival, which we’re super excited about. And it’s just like the fact that it’s on summer solstice to like be in the vines at a music festival, just really celebrating summer. You know, summer is what we thrive on out here in Palisade. And we all just live for summer and nothing happens here in the winter. So we’re really excited about that one. And then Harvest Harmonies is October 4th, the first Saturday in October. And that’s definitely our celebration of harvest. And it’s always like a little bit folksy kind of music. We have an Irish musician coming out to play for that one, which just gonna be really cool. And that one is also so nice because it’s a little bit cooler. Things cool down a little bit in October, and we’re really looking forward to that. And then the last concert of this season is our Rave to the Grave, it is our costumes mandatory 21 and up Halloween party. The place to be for Halloween in the Grand Valley. That was something that Clint and I were both like, you know, coming from California and moving out here. There’s really not like an adult Halloween thing out here anywhere. And I love Halloween. It’s like my favorite thing ever. And I think just like being outside and like, you know, in this like kind of agricultural area also like, speaks to that Halloween vibe, you know. So we’re really excited about that. And then the whole concert series, all four concerts are sponsors of D51 foundation, which is our local nonprofit that supports education and learning here in District 51. So a portion of every ticket sold goes to D51 Foundation. And then we’re gonna be doing like a raffle and like a little extra bonus stuff at the Rave to the Grave also because like I said, we can’t afford to do this stuff on our own. And at the same time, we’re not. You don’t get rich in this industry. That’s not our goal. We are trying to support the community and bring as many like minded people into that goal as possible and see like, how far we can spread the good. You know, like, if you’re the person that’s sitting there enjoying the concert and drinking wine, like, that’s a win for us. If you’re the artist who’s getting paid to, you know, pay rent with your rock, that’s awesome for us. If you’re our employees who are able to like have a sustainable job in the Grand Valley, which, you know, 20 years ago was not a thing, like, that’s a win. And then if we can like pay that forward to support education for, you know, the next generation, it’s like we’re trying to hit on every level here so that you can like have an amazing concert, go out and enjoy it, and then also feel like you’re doing something good for the community. And that’s whether you live here or not. You know, you get to be like, hey, it’s summer solstice, I want to go get a tiny tattoo and shake my booty to some amazing music. And also I’m helping the world, you know?
Lisa: Yeah, it’s a win, win all around.
Barbie: Yeah, it’s a win, win all around. Exactly. I just hope that people recognize that, like, we’re doing all of this for more than just us, you know, I think that’s the most important thing to me. And what I love about working at Carboy is like, this is a benefit. And I think most of the other wineries are doing stuff like this too, where, like, it’s. This is a different wine country than Napa. We will never be rich, famous, $3,500 a bottle wine country. And that’s a good thing because we want to be authentic, real people working at our passion place. And I think that’s what’s so cool and unique about Palisade and what’s cool about Carboy. Is like, we are authentically doing what we love and we hope other people love it too.
Lisa: I love that. So then in closing, I just want to ask, what’s your favorite post-shift drink? What’s your go-to?
Barbie: Oh man. I am a bubbles girl through and through. Right now it’s probably the native fizz rose, which is pet nat rose, it’s amazing. Yeah. And my go to that, I usually the bottle that I bring home is the grand blanc de blanc. If I’m gonna bring a bottle home with me, I just love sparkling wine. It’s really hard for me to turn it down. That or whatever’s left at the end of the bottle. So, you know, I can take one for the team and drink that last four ounces of anything that’s left in the bottle.
Lisa: It’s the best. Thank you so much for being here.
Barbie: Thank you for having me.
Lisa: This was really just really fun for me to learn about one of my favorite places.
Barbie: I love that. Well, thank you so much for having me and thank you for being a sponsor for the concerts. Like I said, we couldn’t do this without you guys, so we’re so grateful for your support.
Lisa: Yeah. Thank you.
Barbie: Thank you.
Lisa: So as I mentioned, Barbie and I chatted right before the May 24th Bubbles and Blues kickoff of the Carboy Concert Series. It was fantastic.
Regular podcast listeners will remember that Carboy’s stage is one of the former migrant farmworker cabins that used to dot Riverbend Park. JoAnn Rasmussen talked about these cabins in episode 39 – check that one out if you haven’t already to learn all about Palisade’s migrant and seasonal farmworkers of the past.
But back to the concert series – the podcast is a sponsor of the series because I, like Barbie, believe that arts and culture are a driver of regional identity, and a region that embraces and provides a wide perspective of art, music, ideas, food, and on and on, that’s what I want to see here too. So if you missed last weekend’s concert, check out one of the upcoming shows. Tickets are available at https://www.carboywinery.com/event-calendar/happenings.
The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend by Geoff Roper. Thanks for listening.
With love, from Palisade.