Podcast: Postcards From Palisade

In part two of the Palisade town grouch series, hear all about the history of Palisade’s town grouch contest and its tragic, funny, and silly stories, get the dirt from previous grouches, and find out who our sister-city grouches are…

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Transcript:

Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade Podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara.

This is part two of the town grouch series: the history of Palisade’s town grouch. In the last episode, I spoke with the current town grouch, Jamie Somerville, and a town grouch hopeful, Lisa Moose Kral. The Lions Club is currently determining how they will carry this beloved tradition forward, and I look forward to seeing what they make of it in years to come.

But I also wanted to know how the Palisade town grouch came to be! So I spent some time digging into past issues of the Palisade Tribune, to find out how the contest started. I talked with a couple previous town grouches to hear why they wanted to have their names documented for all time as a town grouch. And I found a couple other cities that also have grouches, and reached out to their representatives to learn about their contests.

Join me for this delightfully grouchy story, on today’s Postcard From Palisade.

A quick note before we jump in. This episode owes a big debt of gratitude to the Palisade Historical Society. Their efforts to both save the past issues of The Palisade Tribune (which we learned about in episode 50, with Priscilla Walker) and to digitize the issues made my research through 1999 possible. I’ve included links to all of the articles mentioned in this episode in the transcript on the website, postcardsfrompalisade.com, if you’re interested in reading more.

OK, now, let’s get started.

In the summer of 1985, Palisade got a new sign on the corner of Elberta and 1^st, beautifully handmade by Linda Rocco, to welcome visitors to town. This sign gave the editor of the Palisade Tribune at the time, James Keener, an idea. In a June 20^th, 1985 editorial, Keener wrote:

“We congratulate the Palisade Chamber of Commerce on the erection of the new sign located at the intersection of Elberta and 1^st Streets. The sign does an outstanding job of welcoming visitors to our town. We have long been in support of the chamber’s efforts to brighten the image of Palisade and extend a hand of welcome to visitors. The sign erected last week by chamber President Larry Walton and Bill Hamann goes a long way to those ends. It is carved in wood and proudly announces that Palisade is the peach capital of Colorado. We were particularly enthralled with the proclamation: “Pop. 1,700 friendly people (and 1 grouch).” That one grouch addition has a tremendous appeal, and it recognizes that the townsfolk have a healthy sense of humor.

“We feel the Palisade Chamber of Commerce should go further, however. We make a motion that the chamber actually elect a designated grouch each year. The title should be one of affection, not derogation—sort of in the spirit of an ugly man contest. The person designated as the grouch for the year should be someone who the chamber feels deserves recognition, either a chamber member or non-member, who has contributed to the town in some way. Besides, such an election is something the chamber can build a party around—an annual celebration of the grouch. The grouch can ride in parades, and generally serve as a good-natured representative of the chamber. Who will second our motion?”

Now, it’s possible that the idea for a Palisade town grouch started earlier than 1985. According to Bill Floryancic, Bill Lorenzen had been writing about a town grouch in the Tribune starting in the 1970s. And Priscilla Walker remembers a more normal-sized street sign on the south side of West First Street that listed 789 people and one grouch.

But the grouch contest as we know it started in August of 1985, when the Palisade Chamber of Commerce took up James Keener’s challenge.

Bob Delavan was the first registered contestant for 1985’s town grouch. Over the next month, five people ended up in the running to be the first town grouch, with Bill Floryancic winning the honor and being named the first ever Palisade town grouch.

The grouch contest was intended to be a fundraiser for the Chamber of Commerce and a way to publicize the Palisade Peach Fest. At the start, each 25 cents collected by the candidates counted as one vote. The person who raised the most money won the town grouch title. The winner was named right before the start of the Peach Fest Parade, with the grouch then going on to be the grand marshal of the parade. So all contestants needed to show up to the parade ready to party!

The contest continued each year, with the names of winners from 1985 through 2014 captured on a sign in the downtown plaza. It has always been a tongue-in-cheek kind of contest. In the old Palisade Tribune articles you can feel the fun the writers had with the topic.

For example, in August 1987, an unnamed author wrote about that year’s contest, on the front page of the Tribune: “Opponents are choosing their corners and are ready to come out slugging in the Palisade Peach Festival’s “Grouch” contest. In one corner wehave Gardner Clymer, known to be a subversive “grouch,” hiding behind a mask of smiles and friendship. In the other corneris battling Mike McEvoy, whose “grouch” tendencieshave been carefully nurtured in private, and who is expected to give Clymer a run for his money. The arena is not closed, however, and anyone can be nominated for thisposition. (Are there no female grouches out there? Or are they all even tempered soft voiced specimens of the gentler sex?) The gauntlet was thrown down this week when McEvoy was heard to say, “Gardner will have to comeup with at least $100 in points to better me!””

And in July 1988, in another front page article, the author cheekily claimed that “there are no rules against stuffing the ballot boxes (cans). In previous years, winning Grouches have even been accused of buying the election.”

In 1989, one of the contestants, Bill “Grand-Ma” Goddard of Grand-Ma’s Restaurant even took out an ad in the Palisade Tribune, saying, “”We’ll do this the Old Political Way, We’ll Buy Our Way” Support “Grand Ma Bill” for “GROUCH””

And if you want to see a truly delightful image, pull up the August 24^th, 1989 issue of the Tribune and check out the photo of former grouches riding the grouch train, driven by Bill Floryancic. It resembles the kiddie train ride at Olde Fashioned Christmas, only full of grown men wearing sunglasses and their very grumpiest pouts.

Some years, the grouch contest got off to a slow start. For 1991, the sign in the plaza doesn’t list a name – it only says, “Even a Grouch can smile.” Larry Severson was technically the grouch that year, but he was the only candidate in the running and one assumes he didn’t feel justified in claiming he’d won a contest unopposed.

There are a few darker twists in the history of the Palisade town grouch. In 1992, someone tried to steal Tom Underwood’s grouch collection jar from the C&F gas station. Doug Mercer saw what happened, chased after the man, and wrestled the jar from him, which was found to contain about $100.

But most tragically, 1988’s grouch, Ron Vanlandingham, the owner and operator of the Palisade Livery Saloon, was murdered at the Liv in 1993, along with patron Garry Moss. Their murders have never been solved; the case is a CBI cold case to this day. According to an article in the Grand Junction Sentinel from 2014, Ron was a former Army paratrooper and a father and grandfather. He and his wife, Rita, had purchased the Liv in 1987 “as a way to unwind and save some money for retirement.” He cheerfully joined in the grouch contest for a few years and was proud of his former grouch title. Garry was a regular at the Liv, often helping Ron close up at the end of the night.

Of course, this had nothing to do with Ron’s being a town grouch, it was just very bad luck. So a moment of silence to remember Ron and Garry.

—

And so time went by and Palisade grew. In 2022, the Chamber decided to stop running the grouch contest and in 2025, the Lions Club decided that they would continue the tradition. I talked about that more in the last episode, so go back and listen to that one next, if you haven’t already and want to know more.

But I also really wanted to hear from past grouches. Now, it’s true that people have to be nominated for grouch by someone else. But they also need to accept the nomination, so there is an opportunity for them to decide whether or not to be in the grouch running. I wanted to know why previous grouches decided to be part of the contest and what winning the honor meant to them.

So I tracked down two past grouches.

First up is Mary Lincoln. Mary was town grouch in 2022, the last year the Chamber ran the contest. She owns and operates the Slice O’ Life bakery in downtown Palisade, which is located right below my office, regularly sending delicious aromas wafting up between the old floorboards, especially now that they’re back open for the season.

Lisa: It’s nice to meet you in person. I can’t believe I haven’t met you yet.

Mary Lincoln: Well, now you have.

Lisa: I really appreciate you coming in today and talking to me.

Mary: Sure.

Lisa: I’m curious about the Town Grouch program. So I’ve been talking to different people who have been past grouches and Jamie, obviously, the current grouch.

Mary: Yeah. I think I was grouch in 22. I don’t think they did it in 21.

Lisa: And they didn’t do it in 23 or 24, so, you technically were the longest reigning grouch of history.

Mary: Oh, Hot Dog.

Lisa: And I also saw when researching it, that I think you ran in 1990, which was the year that it was only women who were vying to be the grouch.

Mary: Yeah. And Lois Gaspar won.

Lisa: So 1990, did you ever try any other year until 2022?

Mary: No. Well, you know what it is? It’s usually, somebody nominates you, you know. Well, not always, but yeah, I. That was the deal.

Lisa: Well, that’s true. But I do think some people might say, hey, nominate me.

Mary: Yeah, I wanna do that. So I looked at it as just an honor and you know a nod from the town of Palisade. Recognition.

Lisa: So what did it mean to you?

Mary: Pat on the back. Oh, it’s, it’s real meaningful, you know, when your community acknowledges you outside of just patronizing your business.

Lisa: And it’s not about being grouchy, right? Or is it?

Mary: No, but for me, I know at least when it started. I think it started in the early 80s. I think Bill Hamann was on chamber board or something. I think it was his idea. Anyway, for a long time I just voted for a person I thought was grouchiest. I mean, if you can get the recognition. And yeah, it was an honor. Then I got to ride in a freezing cold parade in an open top fire engine. But my oldest granddaughter was just so. Her mom had said, oh, you should ask Haven to ride with you. She would love it. So she really was. She really had the time of her life.

Lisa: Aw, that’s awesome. Was that the Christmas parade? Olde fashioned Christmas parade. Okay.

Mary: Because they did it. You know, they used to do it in conjunction with Peach Fest. And then some of that money just offset the cost of putting on the Peach Fest. Which, I mean, it’s a lot of money to do that. I know that.

Lisa: Yeah.

Mary: I was kind of like shocked when they said, okay, what charity do you want to give it to? Well, if I, you know, I did it for young life because my son’s real involved with that. But I had. If I thought I’d have said the Chamber of Commerce. Because I’m sure they’re a nonprofit.

Lisa: I didn’t realize that they let you donate to whatever you wanted. I did. I thought it was just for Chamber.

Mary: They did that for me. I kind of was like, don’t you understand? You don’t get the money back unless you’re non profit. Donate to yourself.

Lisa: Oh yeah.

Mary: What else? What else do you want to know? It was just fun. It was. The recognition was real meaningful.

Lisa: Do you know who nominated you?

Mary: Yeah. Becky Davis.

Lisa: Okay.

Mary: Maybe I should nominate her.

Lisa: There you go. Yeah, I always wonder that. But like you said, it is, it’s recognition. And I think it’s about.

Mary: Yeah.

Lisa: Fondness and more so than anything else.

Mary: Even though, you know, for a while I was like, hm.

Lisa: So maybe. Yeah, okay, so maybe you’ll nominate Becky this year.

Mary: But I did notice that, I don’t think my name went up on the plaque over there. The plaza. I don’t know. I don’t know what happened with. I think the chamber was, Juliann Adams ran it for a long time and I felt she. Well, she is a member of the community and she really. And it was her background doing something like that. So she really did a really, really good job. And then, you know, pandemic kind of gave everybody excuse to forget everything.

Lisa: So.

Mary: So I didn’t realize they didn’t do it for the next two years after me. I didn’t. Well, no, I guess I did. I. Yeah, take that back. I noticed. But it used to be you headed the Peach Festival parade and they ran it then. And I guess there’s, you know, you get older and it’s like, yeah, things should just be the way they always were. Mainly because it’s easier to keep track of it mentally. But I know that the past few years where they’ve spread the parade and then the festival out for two weeks, like I was like no, don’t do that. But it’s actually better for business. And business is like a funnel, but down here is what you can really handle. You know, it was better for business. It spread out the celebration and I suppose maybe doing the grouch for the Christmas thing, for Olde fashioned Christmas, it just spreads out more fun.

Lisa: Yeah.

Mary: You know, it seems like our Olde fashioned Christmas is more of local. And if it’s not local, it’s, you know, it’s Clifton or Junction, you know, which is essentially extremely local.

Lisa: Yeah. I like having the Peach Fest split out now. At first I felt the same way. I’m like, why are we doing this? But, but what is fun or has been fun is it feels like the start of it is truly locals and it’s, it’s like our celebration and then it turns into the bigger, everybody coming from everywhere. And I do like that a lot.

Mary: Yeah. It took me, the first year, I was like, no. Oh no. You know, and then I was like, wow, this is better because I have two really big weekends rather than so much that your eyes are spinning like pinwheels.

Lisa: You’ve owned the bakery for how long?

Mary: I opened in 1980. I bought the lease in 79.

Lisa: Wow.

Mary: And it seems well, as you get older, that it doesn’t seem like it’s long, you know.

Lisa: Yeah. Time compresses. Well, I love your pastries. Like I really like how they are savory and you know, they’re not just like a sugar bomb. It’s like a such a good, savory flavor.

Mary: I started. Well, I’m still there. You know, as like sort of the natural foods. I might agree with RFK Jr. on something like, yeah, eat real food. Do you know, ultra process and totally packaged stuff and you know, like those, paper towels, pastry that color.

Lisa: Not good.

Mary: So yeah, you know, I use like real ingredients and the best I can get, you know where I could still like sell it so ordinary people could afford it.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, you can taste it and I’m excited for you to open back up.

Mary: Thanks. And I love using local products, local fruit. Oh yeah.

Lisa: Anything else you want to add about the grouch or Palisade or?

Mary: Well, I should remember to try get a hold of Lois Gaspar, because she’s got a funny story. She didn’t. She won. You know, I mean she won. And then she moved a year later and I think there was a trophy or something that went with the Grouch and she moved with it because she didn’t realize that you passed it on. Then she eventually moved back and people were like, where’s her Grouch trophy? She was like, oh, no, I didn’t know.

Lisa: Oh, no. So did they get it back eventually?

Mary: I don’t know.

Lisa: Oh no. That’s funny.

Mary: I know that when they first came up with it, I just. So corny. But, you know, then it was like, no, it’s a deal. It’s kind of a, get your community involved. You know, they get to, you know, they get some input. It’s just.

Lisa: Yeah, it’s silly, but it’s also fun. Like, it’s definitely silly.

Mary: Yeah.

Lisa: But it’s a fun thing. It’s like a unique thing that makes Palisade, Palisade.

Mary: It was a great idea of Bill’s in the end, you know.

Lisa: Well, thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate meeting you.

Mary: Nice meeting you.

JJ and Sawyer Fletcher were town grouches in 2012. JJ and I spoke by phone, so the sound is a little muffled.

J.J. Fletcher: Yeah. I’m J.J. Fletcher. I’m currently Mesa county commissioner, past town grouch of Palisade.

Lisa: Yeah. So it. The sign says 2012.

J.J.: Is that, okay. So it’s been 13 years ago. 13. 14.

Lisa: And so it also says JJ and Sawyer Fletcher. So I was curious about that too. So what’s. What’s the story there?

J.J.: Yeah. Sawyer is my grandson. So now he’s 15 because he just had a birthday and we just kind of took it on to be co-grouches because, well he probably didn’t know what he was getting into. He’s, you know, one and a half years old.

Lisa: Yeah, that’s really cute.

J.J.: We had a lot of fun with it.

Lisa: Well, tell me, why did you, why did you want to be the Grouch at that time?

J.J.: You know, it’s just kind of the notoriety, but it was also a way to, to do fundraising. And I, I, if I remember right, the money went back to the Chamber of Commerce, but I, I can’t remember for sure, but I’m pretty certain that the money went back to the Palisade Chamber of Commerce just to, you know, bring out, bring up the marketing part of Palisade. Just marketing to the community for the events, all the events that we have in, in Palisade.

Lisa: Yeah. So when in, in your year of, of reign, do you remember, do you remember any activities that you participated in or anything kind of memorable from that time?

J.J.: Yeah, they, they they had kind of the inauguration, so Bennett Price was the town grouch previous to our reign. And they had a hat at that time that Bennett passed over to me. So he was the previous town grouch and he gave me a hat. And of course my grandson got a little hat too and he didn’t like the hat and he kind of threw it down on the ground. He didn’t really think it was too funny to wear a hat that day. And Bennett said something like, he’s just not. Sawyer’s just not a hat kind of guy, you know. And I don’t remember if it was at the Peach Festival or, you know, it was a festival of some sort because they had a train or a bus that came downtown. I think it was a little bus. And Bennett rode in. No, it was a fire truck. He came in in a fire truck. And then he got off the fire truck and then we got up on the fire truck from what I remember, and went around the block as the new town Grouches. And then you were also in. I’m pretty sure it was the Peach Festival parade. It was the Grouches.

Lisa: Nice. Yeah. have you talked to Sawyer about it all now that he’s a teenager? What does he think about being part of that as a newborn or a toddler? I guess.

J.J.: I don’t know. I’ll have to call him and maybe call you back or have him call you, and he’s not going to remember anything about it, but just that his name’s up on the wall, you know.

Lisa: Yeah, no, it’s like a legacy now. Now when he gets older, he’s gonna have to run for it himself someday.

J.J.: Yes, I think. Yeah. I came down to the Palisade Peach Festival this year and gave the opening remarks as a county commissioner for the proclamation for the county, and I actually introduced Jamie Somerville as the new town Grouch at the Peach Festival down at the Riverbend Park.

Lisa: I don’t think I asked you this yet, but why did you decide, back in 2012, why did you decide that you wanted to run for Town Grouch?

J.J.: Just because it was fun.

Lisa: Good answer.

J.J.: Yeah. It was just fun.

Lisa: Okay, great. anything else you want to share about the program.

J.J.: I think it’s really, really cool that, you know, when people think about Palisade and maybe we’re the maybe the only community around that has a Town Grouch, but it’s more of a notoriety, and it’s not really that, oh, you have to be the grouchiest guy around, because that’s far from who I am and who Sawyer, our personalities are 180 from that. But I think it’s just good notoriety to say. Yeah. You know, you see the population sign when you enter Palisade, by the Colorado River? I think it says 2546 people and one town grouch, you know?

Lisa: Yeah. It’s an awesome tradition.

J.J.: It adds flavor.

All this researching, talking, and thinking about the grouch made me wonder: is Palisade the only town that does this? So I did some digging and I found two other towns in North America with long, proud grouch traditions: Kettle Falls, WA and Evansburg, in Alberta, Canada, both having town grouch contests run by the respective towns’ Chambers of Commerce.

Kettle Falls’ grouch contest also started in 1985 and has the same vibe as Palisade’s contest, where the grouch position is intended to honor local leaders, instead of being about actual grouchiness.

According to the Kettle Falls Chamber of Commerce, “The rank of Kettle Falls Town Grouch is traditionally bestowed on a person who shows exceptional leadership qualities and deserves a place of honor. The Grouch is named to take the lead in the parade processionals and in hosting festivities. The ceremonial titleholder is often renowned as a community leader or cultural hero.”

Kettle Falls’ now-shuttered local brewery, Northern Ales, even put a photo of the grouch on the can for their Grouch Lager – which is an idea for Palisade Brewing Company…

I reached out to their Chamber to learn more about their grouch’s history, and they connected me with the person currently running the contest, Carrie Paetsch. According to Carrie, “the story I heard was that there was a little old man who was extremely grumpy/grouchy and everyone would avoid him at all costs. He was frail and carried a cane, which you see in one of the grouch pics representing Kettle Falls. Someone came up with the idea of nominating this gentleman for a town grouch, and then they decided that would not be kosher, and nominated Dean MacIntosh, who was our 1^stGrouch. This tradition has gone on every year, except during COVID.”

Evansburg’s town grouch contest started even earlier, in 1979. They take the grouching part much more literally, though. Evansburg’s town grouch gets a license to grouch, a grouch bench downtown where they can sit and “pester, criticize and grumble for an entire year,” and a sign with their grouch address, “#10 Frowning Street.” There is even an official Grouch caricature: a disgruntled-looking coal miner with unruly red hair, outfitted with a helmet with lamp, overalls, boots, and a miner’s pick.

Like Palisade, Evansburg also has a mining heritage, with coal mining being the town’s primary economic activity from 1912 to 1936. Their town grouch dresses up as the coal mining caricature for official events.

Evansburg resident John Lauer came up with the town grouch idea in 1974, coincidentally while making a new welcome sign for the town that was commissioned by the local Chamber of Commerce.

According to a very entertaining history on the Evansburg and Entwistle Chamber of Commerce website, John remembered the invention process going something like this: “I have a wild imagination and wanted to put words on the sign that would arouse one’s interest.”

After inventorying the town’s population of people, dogs, and cats, he continued: “Ah, the population line was looking much better, but still something was missing. I had claimed earlier that we had Friendly People, but feeling the need to be somewhat more truthful, I thought we should admit to having 1 Grouch. Hopefully any visitor to our village, upon encountering any local who was being less than congenial, would be more easily able to forgive such behaviour … assuming this person to be our one admitted Grouch.”

I am so curious to know if there was a link between our three towns, but haven’t found anything as of yet. Since the three programs started about the same time and originated with the town’s respective Chambers of Commerce, I can only assume that there must have been something in the late seventies Chamber materials, maybe at a meeting, maybe in a newsletter, that posited a town grouch contest as a good way to market a town, and these three Chamber presidents picked up the idea and ran with it, and they became local beloved traditions, carried on to this day. That said, it could have been a completely organic coincidence! If I find out anything more definitive, you’ll all be the first to know.

I have a lot of people to thank for assisting with this episode in one way or another. Most importantly, thanks to the Palisade Historical Society for making this kind of research possible via the newspaper digitization project. If you want to donate to that project, visit historicpalisade.org. The Historical Society is estimating they should be able to wrap this project up in the next year, with all copies in their possession then being digitized. The Postcards From Palisade Podcast is a proud member of the Palisade Historical Society.

I also want to thank JoAnn Rasmussen, Priscilla Walker, Jessica Burford, Lisa Moose Kral, and Rick Fox for sharing parts of Palisade’s town grouch story, Mary Lincoln and JJ Fletcher for taking the time to chat with me, Trinity Richards at the Tipple Park Museum and Carrie Paetsch in Kettle Falls for sharing more information about their town grouches, and Kristin Rocco for mentioning that her mother-in-law made the original welcome sign (which is now hanging in the Palisade Brewing Company, by the way).

Like I mentioned earlier, I’ve included links to all of the articles referenced in this episode in the transcript on the website, postcardsfrompalisade.com, in case you want to dive into these stories further.

In the next episode, I’m planning on sharing the recording of the first Palisade Radio Hour, recorded at my studio in February, when a group of friends gathered to share their stories about how they ended up in Palisade and the moment when they felt at home here. As soon as I finish editing it! Stay tuned…

The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend, by Geoff Roper.

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.

Welcome to Palisade, Colorado: 2,692 friendly people and 1 grouch. What’s the story behind Palisade’s grouch contest, and who would want to be one? I talk with the current town grouch and a town grouch hopeful to find out.

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Transcript:

Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade Podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara. Join me as I chat with our community members to hear about how they are making Palisade a great place to live and visit.

You may have seen the sign in the plaza downtown: welcome to Palisade, 2,692 friendly people and 1 grouch. Or the older sign at the brewery, from back when Palisade had 1,700 friendly people, but we still had that 1 grouch. I had to know, what’s the deal with this town grouch?

Well, I’ve had a great time digging into this unique piece of Palisade’s lore. I’ve had such a great time that the episode started getting very, very long, so I decided to split it up into two episodes.

Today is Town Grouch Part 1: Grouches of Palisade Present (and maybe, future?).

The next episode will be Town Grouch Part 2: Grouches of Palisade Past. I’ve spoken with a few former town grouches and have dug into the history of this contest, and can’t wait to share that with you all too.

But let’s start with our current town grouch. As of 2025, the Lions Club of Palisade, championed by Rick Fox, is continuing the town grouch tradition that was started by the Palisade Chamber of Commerce back in 1985. The Lions Club is also commissioning a beautiful new sign to post downtown that will include the names of all town grouches, along with plenty of space for future grouches.

The Lions Club is working out the details of the 2026 grouch contest, so be sure to follow them for more updates on how this tradition will continue going forward. They’re on Facebook at Palisade CO Lions Club.

Side note: do you know about the Palisade Lions Club? That’s another interesting story in its own right. The Palisade branch of this service organization has been active for 95 years, since July 1930. Their stated intent is to “make Palisade a better place to live, work and play by virtue of its Lion’s Club.” Their motto is: “We Serve.” Their mission today is to empower volunteers to serve our community, meet humanitarian needs, and encourage peace.

Every park, most buildings, and many local organizations have benefited from the Lions’ generosity. They have put in park benches, picnic shelters, planters, made improvements to the Veterans Memorial Center, helped schools purchase equipment and improve their athletic fields, helped fund peach pest control efforts, funded healthcare efforts, and so, so much more.

Thanks to Rick Fox for sharing the history of this awesome organization with me. If you want to join the Lions Club and help make Palisade a better place to live, work, and play, please reach out to Rick at palisadelions(at)gmail.com. Another way to support them is to participate in their fundraising events, like the annual pancake breakfast.

While we eagerly wait to hear how 2026’s grouch program will run, I managed to track down the current town grouch, Jamie Somerville, in all his grouchiness and convince him to stop by my office talk to me about his grouchy reign. When he’s not being the town grouch, Jamie is a member of the town’s board of trustees, a teacher at Mt. Garfield Middle School, and a born and raised Palisadian. Jamie shared with me what it means to him to be the 2025 Palisade town grouch.

Jamie: It’s something as a kid, you grew up, and you always were excited about it. And, you know, one of the early ones I remember was Tom Underwood, and he worked at the gas station, and a lot of us would always go in there and buy candy and sodas, and the grouch would be the person in there, and that was pretty neat. And, I don’t know, it’s a. It’s a pretty cool honor. It’s something that is, you know, being a lifelong Palisadian that I’ve always thought highly of, and I’m, so first and foremost, I think it’s really important. Rick Fox is the person who’s most responsible for bringing it back. He took it as a passion project and did all the work to do all the digging and did all this stuff. And, you know, he deserves all the credit for getting it alive, and I’m so grateful that he did. And. And it’s a lot of fun. And my role in the whole thing is really just to shine light on it, and I guess I draw more attention.

But I want it to be something that is celebrated in Palisade and that people know about and, you know, heckle me. You should. That’s what it’s all about. I think at Peach Fest, I walked around and did the same grimace face for everybody. And I even found one of the stuffed animal vendors at Peach Fest. They had the cutest little sad turtle. And so I put him on my shoulder, and he was. What was it I was telling people? I was like, I’m getting too happy, so I need this turtle to keep me. Keep me upset.

Lisa: Bring it back down.

Jamie: Yeah.

Lisa: Well, we should start with. What’s your name?

Jamie: All right. I’m Jamie Somerville.

Lisa: Awesome. Thanks, Jamie. I did reach out to Rick, too. But he said I should talk to you.

Jamie: I’ve never heard of Rick. You know, I think Rick’s just. I don’t think he wants it to be about him.

Lisa: Okay.

Jamie: And you know, I think that he’s very proud of what it’s gonna be and he’s got, he’s excited about it coming back and you know, in later years you heard more people talking about it. And I remember I was so excited when Mary Lincoln got it because it’s been men so many times, you know, and it’s.

Jamie: I think it means a lot. I think it is an established Palisade person award. It is something that, you know, you’re just recognized for existing, basically, and that’s great. It’s an interesting thing because it started as a fundraiser for the Chamber. And so, you know, as a kid I never really understood how it got situated. And you see the little donation cups and I don’t know if that’s the future of it or if it’s something that just gets voted on plainly from in the future. I have no idea what Rick’s plan is for that, but, you know, I’m excited to be a part of making it visible again.

Lisa: So tell me, what is town grouch?

Jamie: So that’s it. I think you just make people laugh. You know, it’s a funny thing. It’s an ironic thing. Anybody that knows me knows I’m not grouchy. And I think the irony in choosing people that aren’t grouchy makes it funny. And I’m probably becoming a little more curmudgeonly as I get older and, and I can play along with that. I don’t know where the term came. I know it came from the sign. And because that sign, I used to ride my bike by it all the time and it said 1,700 people and one, or 799 people in one grouch or something.

Lisa: It was 1,700.

Jamie: And you know, and I love that sign and I’d love to see that sign go back and really it become our theme, because it is ours. We’re not just making it up out of nowhere. Rick recognized it. It used to be. And it was no more. And you know, I think you can lose sight of those things if you quit paying attention to them.

Lisa: Yeah.

Jamie: And they’re fun to keep going. And I think the coolest thing is, is that it just recognizes people that have been here. You know, I love going. The sign is going to get moved so people can actually see it. A tree decided to grow in its way. But it’s one of those things that it’s cool to go and see the list of names that you’re up there with. I mean, anytime I can be on a list with Bill Floryancic, I’m gonna be excited about that.

Lisa: Nice. Yeah. So it’s not about being grouchy. But there are some responsibilities that you have to fulfill throughout the year, right?

Jamie: Yeah. And I think we’re working out what that actually means. So I just go to everything I can. I think the future of it would be something that like, eventually events would request the grouch. That’s what I’ve. I’ve stood back and if anybody would have ever requested that I be at their thing, I would do it. You know, we definitely did Peach Fest. So I walked around Peach Fest. I know that there’s plans to make it announced at bluegrass. I kind of did a dual role at the parade where. The Christmas one especially. You know, and I was really offended because everybody said I should dress up like the Grinch, which I said was a Temu version. The Temu version of the Grouch. It’s like, you know, that’s my off. I don’t.

Lisa: Grinch is not the Grouch.

Jamie: I don’t mess with the Grinch. You know, he’s much cheerier than I am. So just giving it that identity, being present, and people just catch it. And especially out at Peach Fest, they’re like, wanted to take pictures and there’s 20 pictures of me making grumpy faces out there now, which is great.

Lisa: Going forward, it’s still being developed and how exactly the Lions Club is going to run the contest or program or whatever you want to call it. But is a component of it always going to continue to be fundraising? Is that something that’s always a part of it?

Jamie: I don’t know if that’s the future of it. That really is going to come down to what they want to do. I think that they are the custodians of it now, and I certainly hope that that’s not a block that it runs into, that it has to be one thing or the other, because I think you have to keep the main thing, the main thing about it, and it’s just recognizing the irony and the joy and the fun of Palisade and making sure that that’s the essence of it, because you certainly don’t want it to become something where the highest bidder gets it either.

Lisa: Right.

Jamie: And then you start running into conflicts about it. It should be just a yokel, you know, just a Palisade person. And I think that’s why Rick really pushed for me to help bring it back, because I’m obviously that guy. So, yeah, I think that’s got to be the vision of it, however it gets decided.

Lisa: Interesting. One of the things that I found from past stories about it in past Tribunes was, they were pretty shameless about it being going to the highest bidder. Back in the day, back when it started. There’s some quotes about, this is one election you can. I don’t. This is one election where you can bribe the officials or something like that. And I thought that was pretty funny, but I can see how maybe back in the day, 40 years ago, that was funny.

Jamie: Things probably were funnier back then.

Lisa: Yeah. Maybe less funny now these days. You grew up here. Obviously, you were born here, raised here. You said you biked by the sign, saw the town grouch. Did you ever feel like you were one day going to be the town grouch?

Jamie: Probably, yeah. I was like, that’s probably something I’ll do. Right? I mean, I have just. I’ve had a love affair with this town forever. I was not one of those people that walked around and said bad things about Palisade. I loved it. I mean, I went away for college. I lived in Kansas, and I lived in Tennessee, and I drove people crazy talking about this place. I annoyed them to death. And they were like, it’s just a place, man. And I was like, oh, you should see it. It’s great. It’s wonderful. It’s awesome. And I purposefully went away to college because I knew I was going to spend the rest of my life here. And it was all about that. It was all, you know, I took everybody with me and never forgot about anybody and got back here as soon as I could. And this is it. It’s perfect. And so I think I just. I totally embrace all of that tradition, and I love it. And, yeah, I was really excited when it happened. I’m not gonna sit here and be like, you know, I didn’t really. Yeah, I wanted to be a grouch! Heck yeah, it’s like the coolest thing ever. So it worked out pretty well.

Lisa: I love it. Does your family and friend. Do your family and friends agree that. That you are a grouch qualified material?

Jamie: Yeah, absolutely. Especially my kids. You know, they didn’t even flinch at it. They were like, oh, what’d you do now? Who’d you upset? That fits. My kids, especially are probably the ones that don’t see the irony in it, so.

Lisa: That’s fair. So what does it mean to you to be carrying on this tradition?

Jamie: Just that it’s a great Palisade tradition that needs to be brought back up, and I am going to shamelessly just put light on it as much as I can. And hopefully somebody. Somebody else sees it out there and says, yeah, I could totally do that. And then when it’s decided, I think, I know that Rick said that there was going to be an announcement about it at bluegrass coming up. And so I’m going to go up on the stage and embarrass myself and just, you know, wave my arms around and growl at people. And hopefully there’s some people out there that say, I want to carry that on and be visible. It should be more than just riding in a parade. You know, you should be willing to talk about it and be willing to do it. And in the meantime, talk about what Palisade means to you and why you care about it. And I think that’s probably the important thing is it’s an opener to a conversation about who we are.

Lisa: You mean bluegrass in June, right?

Jamie: Yes.

Lisa: Bluegrass and roots. Okay.

Jamie: Yes. I don’t know when my term started on the grouch thing. You know, that’s kind of what I’ve had in mind of when we will go forward with it. There’s. I don’t know if there’s any rules right now.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, that’s fair. That’s totally fair. I mean, I think it’s great it’s coming back. I think overall, I mean, nobody said, oh no, the grouch program is coming back. Like, everybody was really excited. Like, yay, it’s back.

Jamie: And people got to learn about it.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people have moved here since 2022 when the last one happened.

Jamie: Yeah. And I think there was a gap of time where it didn’t really get handed out. I’m sure Covid played a role in that. And if we weren’t going out and interacting with people, then. Yeah.

Lisa: So are you gonna make a bid for grouch again next year?

Jamie: So that’s one of those things that I think has got to be decided about the culture of it. You know, I didn’t ask for it this time. I don’t know if it’s appropriate to nominate yourself or if it’s something that you should be nominated for or how that goes. So, you know, I’m pretty fortunate that I got to do it once. I’m not gonna, like, seek it out. I’m not gonna go and, you know, run for it. But if I were nominated again, I would do it again, and I would whatever, and that’d be great, and I’d be grateful again. But I think it’s probably more fun if you’re nominated by other people. So I think I’ve nominated my wife three times.

Lisa: What did she have to say about that?

Jamie: She didn’t know. She’s gonna find out when she hears this podcast.

Lisa: That’s pretty funny.

Jamie: I was always hoping she’d win, and then I had some explaining to do.

Lisa: Well, other than your wife, who do you think should run? Or who do you. Who would you nominate next year, other than your wife?

Jamie: Can I formally make a nomination right now?

Lisa: I think you can. Yeah. I feel like you should.

Jamie: I’m want to formally nominate Rick Fox. You know, I think Rick would love it. I think he would be great. I think that he’s got a vision in his mind and, you know, bringing it back. He would have not looked great making himself the grouch, so and he knows that.

Lisa: Good point.

Jamie: So I am throwing Rick’s name out there. I know Lisa Kral has been adamant. She’s shameless about it. She wants it. She might fight for it. We could just. We could do something with those two. We could do debates and ask them questions and they just get angry and upset. You know what, like, what irritates you the most? And then we could all just be in the Palisade Auditorium and take it in. There could be moderator questions and we could just get down to it.

Lisa: I love it.

Jamie: And maybe we all vote there after. Who. Who’s the grouchiest?

Lisa: That’s an awesome idea.

Jamie: Yeah.

Lisa: I really like that.

Jamie: Yeah. I just came up with it.

Lisa: Yeah. Like kind of in. Instead of like, when there’s the board of trustees candidate forum, it would be the.

Jamie: The Lions get to be up there. I think citizens should get to ask questions.

Lisa: I think this sounds like a great idea. Yeah, I love it. All right. We need Rick to buy into that, too. Hm. I’d help with that. Anyway, good idea. what else about the program or anything else you want to share or say?

Jamie: I think it’s just the biggest part of pushing on the tradition. And for me, for me, the whole thing is about gratitude. I think that we have so many good things going on in Palisade. The irony of being grouchy is hilarious because how can you be grouchy about living here? We have so much more to be thankful for than we have to be upset about. It’s just a wonderful place. It’s the best place in the world. And I think that’s got to be the attitude of it, is I would say whoever represents that is the best person to do it.

Lisa: Awesome.

Jamie: And I have no fault in saying that I’m probably the most grateful person in town, so that worked out pretty well.

Lisa: That’s fair. I love it.

Jamie: You should get Lisa’s opinion, just as a big fan.

So I did.

Lisa Moose Kral: I get nervous when you interview me.

Lisa: Oh, really? I mean,

Lisa Moose Kral: I don’t want to sound silly.

Lisa: I’d get nervous if it was me the other way, I’d be nervous. Well, do you want to start by introducing yourself?

Lisa Moose Kral: Sure. My name is Lisa Moose Kral, and I’m a Palisade town grouch hopeful, I guess.

This is my second time chatting with Lisa (Moose) for the podcast. She was featured in one of the first episodes, in May of 2023. Lisa is a photographer who regular shoots photos for Palisade events. She took the photos for La Plaza’s Faces of the Harvest exhibit last year. She’s a member of Palisade Art Vision (PAV), the Palisade Historical Society, and the Lions Club. I asked Lisa why she wanted to be the town grouch.

Lisa: OK so tell me why you want to be Palisade’s town grouch.

Lisa Moose Kral: Okay, so when we moved here, John Sabal was the town grouch, and he became one of my first friends. And he continued to be the town grouch for three years. And he kept the town grouch hat at the Palisade Cafe. And he let me put it on one year, and I was like, ooh, I like this. And really, I am a sucker for accessories. So I had tried on the hat, and I think once you put on that town grouch hat, it, like, invades your body.

Lisa: Ooh.

Lisa Moose Kral: And I was like, ooh. And then Covid happened, so they didn’t have a town grouch, and they were resurging it in 2021, and I was like, maybe this is my year. And so I put together a flier and I made a whole campaign saying, Lisa Moose Kral, the first Moose town grouchette. Because there have been grouchettes, as, you know, Mary Lincoln and a few ladies before that. But I wanted to be the first Moose grouchette. So I made a campaign, and I posted it on social media, and everyone’s like, you’re not grouchy enough. And at that time, I was one of the only photographers for the Chamber. And they’re like, well, you photograph the grouch, and like we don’t really want selfies. Can you maybe hold off on that? And I was like, fair enough. Okay, I’ll hold off on it. But since 2021, I had a campaign that said, ruining other people’s photos for many years. And that came from the, there was a Palisade Plunge party, downtown Palisade, and the GJ Sentinel made an article about it, and every photo in their article, there I was standing in the middle of their photographer’s photos.

Lisa: That’s making my eye twitch!

Lisa Moose Kral: So I thought that was a great slogan. So I had all the things, but I was told I wasn’t grouchy enough and the selfies were not really acceptable.

Lisa: Aw.

Lisa Moose Kral: However, I do have a husband that can verify that I am actually very grouchy, especially from the hours about 6am to 8am and he’s willing to provide photo evidence if that’s required for future campaigns. He definitely can vouch for my grouchiness. But I am a photographer, and my job is to make people smile. But then I was thinking, this year, when you see the town grouch walking around, you smile, you know, like. So I don’t think you need to be grouchy to be the town grouch. So whether it be this year or years to come, it is one of my life goals to be the Palisade town grouchette.

Lisa: I’m loving that so much. So what did you. Okay, so you have photographed the previous grouches for quite some time.

Lisa Moose Kral: Yes. And the year that I wanted to run, it was Rondo, which, you know, if, you know Rondo, I can’t compete with that. But he didn’t even win. It was Brad Brophy, who is actually adorable. And, you know, I guess he can be grouchy, but he’s. He’s a very sweet man, so I was glad that he won that year.

Lisa: Is that the new sign you have a picture of?

Lisa Moose Kral: Yeah, I have the new sign.

Lisa: Oh sweet.

Lisa Moose Kral: So Brad Brophy and then Mary Lincoln and then Jamie Somerville ran unopposed last year. Not fair, Jamie Somerville.

Lisa: I think he was appointed.

Lisa Moose Kral: But, you know, I have support from the Palisade Lions Club. If I choose to be. If I choose to try to be the grouch. But I like to know who my competition is, because then I saw, like, Rondo, and I’m like, I can’t compete with that. Sorry, Rondo.

Lisa: Well, I actually wanted to talk to you because Jamie mentioned you specifically, because I talked to him. And he was like, I know Lisa really wants to be the grouch. I know she wants it bad. You should talk to her.

Lisa Moose Kral: I really do. I mean, since we moved to Palisade, I just want to partake in all the big and small things that make our town so fun and unique. And, you know, I’ve joined the Palisade Historical Society. I’m a Palisade Lions now. You know, I’m a town photographer. I’m one of the photographers for the Chamber. I just. I like doing all the things I, you know, I want. I made this my home 10 years ago. And so town grouch is on my list of life goals. So maybe this is my year. I don’t know.

Lisa: Yeah, I’m feeling it.

Lisa Moose Kral: As I’m sitting here in a rainbow sweater with purple hair and a butterfly necklace.

Lisa: You do look very cheerful today! Well, what have you learned from previous. From photographing the previous town grouches? Any wisdom?

Lisa Moose Kral: I mean, they really just, I hate to spoil it, but they really provide joy to the town when you see that hat walking around. And I do like accessories too, so. And I might demand a purple town grouchette hat. But I just think it’s just, like, a little nicety that walks around Palisade at the festivals and the parades and, you know, why not. Why not add that to my list of little things that I’ve accomplished? Small goals. But I think it’s important that I add that to my list. I started talking to the Lions Club about, you know, the potential or the past interest I had, and they’re like, yes, town grouch Lisa. And I’m like okay, that could be my thing again. I just. My bubble kind of got burst when everyone’s like, you’re not grouchy enough. And I’m like, oh, I surely am. You just don’t. I just don’t leave the house when I’m grouchy.

Lisa: But that’s not the main point of being of the town grouch.

Lisa Moose Kral: I think it’s been five years. Times have changed a little bit. There’s other photographers here in Palisade. I’m sure they wouldn’t mind taking my photo, so, you know, don’t have to take selfies. Although I think a town grouch selfie would be quite apropos.

Lisa: It would be, because you’d be like, look at me. Nobody even wants to take my picture. I have to take my own.

Lisa Moose Kral: It’s just sad taking my own picture. But, yeah, I mean, it could be my year, people. It could be my year.

Lisa: I feel it. I don’t know if I’ve heard from anybody else who wants to be the grouch so much. So.

Lisa Moose Kral: I mean, running unopposed would feel okay for me because I’m not very competitive. So, I would gladly step in and relieve Jamie Somerville. But I kind of would want a new hat that was purple.

Lisa: Is that the same? Is that the hat that’s been used in the recent past?

Lisa Moose Kral: No, it’s a new hat.

Lisa: Okay.

Lisa Moose Kral: I’ve heard that John Sabal’s hat is missing, and he can’t defend himself right now, but I think he might be interested in talking with you when he gets back.

Lisa: Definitely.

Lisa Moose Kral: So they got a new hat for Jamie this year.

Lisa: That’s really funny, because I don’t think Mary had a hat.

Lisa Moose Kral: No, I don’t remember Mary ever putting on the hat. But I think a hat is kind of something you want, just personal.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Just the concept of a hat gets passed on from year to year. I mean, a hat is personal.

Lisa Moose Kral: It is. And I think maybe the grouch should decide what their hat should be. Every grouch is a little bit different.

Lisa: I’m picturing you with one of those, like, 90s, like those purple 90s hats that everybody had that was just really like.

Lisa Moose Kral: Like a Cyndi Lauper kind of?

Lisa: Do you remember the one that had the big thing, maybe, the big things that came out? I feel like everybody had them. In the late 90s.

Lisa Moose Kral: I’ll look into it. Because I won’t, you know, if I’m in charge of picking my own, which I don’t know if I would be, but I would make it, you know, something special.

Lisa: You absolutely would.

Lisa Moose Kral: I bet.

Lisa: I seriously think if I Google late 90s purple hat, I feel like it’s gonna come up. It did not. This is just in my mind. I was like, it’s gonna be the first one. Okay. More research.

Lisa Moose Kral: I’ll look into it.

Lisa: All right. I’ll find it. And I’ll text it to you.

Lisa Moose Kral: But yes, I mean, if this is gonna be my year, I would gladly accept, and I promise to be grouchy and make you smile at the same time, because that’s my job as a photographer.

There you have it. Moose for 2026 grouchette?

So back to Jamie. Having a born and raised Palisadian in my office, on the mic, I realized I had a great opportunity to learn more about what it was like to be a kid in Palisade about the same time that I was growing up in the northwoods of New York state.

Lisa: What was it like growing up here?

Jamie: A lot different then. It was quiet. And I know a lot of people love that, but it was really quiet. And you would ride your bike. Like I said, you’d ride your bike. I lived out on 36 and 3/10 Road. And a day with your friends was riding your bike to town. I remember we used to save 100 pennies. The game was to save 100 pennies. And then you could go buy a candy bar. And I’m sure that. I’m sure that Tom Underwood loved dealing with, gathering all of our pennies.

Lisa: I’m sure he did.

Jamie: But you could go and we’d buy, you know, I was really into baseball cards. So it was save your coins until you could afford it. And then it was just an excuse to ride your bike. And a lot of us would meet up at the pool. The pool hasn’t changed at all. And it was funny when my kids came home talking about playing gutterball. Because I’m like, we played gutterball. And when we were talking about pool modifications, it was like, don’t change the gutters. The gutters are the essence of the pool.

Lisa: Got to have gutterball.

Jamie: So that was neat. And it’s still weird going into the Dinomart because the door or the front used to be on the other side. And that, it still throws me off. That was called the 5B. And I don’t know, that was just fun. That was what you did. You went and bought, back when everything cost $0.50. You would spend your dollar on a Snickers and a Coke or something like that. And you rode your bike and we did a lot of things that we shouldn’t admit to now, like swimming in canals and rivers and that was. But we just. The whole area was ours. And you didn’t live near anybody really. So you had to go find people. And then we’d all meet up somewhere. It was different too, when Peach Fest used to be in the park right here. Because it was easy for us to break away from there. It wasn’t like you had to commit down to Riverbend. It was everybody meet there. And then we’d go to the rope swing under the bridge and then we’d go from there and. Have you ever seen the rope swing under the bridge?

Lisa: No, I haven’t. No. I’ve never even heard of this.

Jamie: Right under the main bridge, there’s a rope swing usually that comes off there and there’s that eddy right under the beams. So that was a lot of that. And that’s pretty much it. And we kept ourselves busy doing that. I don’t know how much kids still do that, because kids just don’t. Like, my kids don’t go wander and they don’t have to wander like they’re in town now, so maybe there’s less incentive when you’re actually just here.

Lisa: Maybe. Yeah. No, I grew up in the middle of nowhere and absolutely wandered and like lived in the woods. It was great. It was a lot of fun.

Jamie: It was like, I mean, if you were out after 10, nothing. We didn’t have the scene of, the social scene at all. And I think as kids we were afraid to go by the Livery saloon just because we didn’t know what that meant. And we were like, “that’s a bar!” So I mean, half of us grew up working at what is now the brew pub because that was United Fruit Growers. So at one point, I’ve worked several jobs there that weren’t, you know, I worked there as a bartender and I worked there as a packer. So. And we did that. That was another cool thing, was a lot of us, so when you had United Fruit Growers, you had a lot of small farmers that contributed to that. So you had a lot more employers. A bunch of people had small orchards and they would all hire kids. And so, and yeah, you’d be 12 and you’d go do it. And that was something fun that we did with our friends, which most of the time, I don’t think that would pass now because we were really inefficient. I think of the number of peach crates that we boxed compared to what Clark’s does in a day. And I mean, I remember we thought eight was a lot and Clark’s does hundreds.

Lisa: Wow.

Jamie: You know. And they’re fast and they’re doing it. So it was a nice. We were probably the last generation of kids that really got into it.

Lisa: Interesting. I bet there was a lot of loss too, in terms of like eating them and throwing them at each other and things like that.

Jamie: I didn’t even eat them when I picked them so much and did all that. I liked pears.

Lisa: Okay. Oh, the pears here are so good.

Jamie: You know, like, I worked at Fuller’s a lot, and I. When I was on my break, I grabbed a. I. Weirdest thing, I liked a pre-ripe pear. Like a green pear. And I was into that. And I could eat those and chew on them. I don’t know if it was the texture of them. They were like an apple. That was my. Now, I mean, obviously I love peaches now, but I. They were fuzzier back then, too. I’m insistent on that.

Lisa: Oh yeah?

Jamie: And maybe I’m crazy, but I think they used to be fuzzier. And I think that as we’ve gotten into some of these different hybrids that aren’t the Elberta and whatever, maybe that’s true. But I see the new peaches and I’m like, they’re not fuzzy.

Lisa: Interesting. I do. I. I think even over the last few years, they’re less fuzzy. Even though over, like five to 10 years.

Jamie: The peaches of my childhood were a face full more than a mouthful. I was. I was like, pears are clean. I’ll just eat those.

Lisa: I love the pears here. I think they’re amazing.

Jamie: They are wonderful. They are highly underrated.

Lisa: I agree!

Jamie: Have you had the Bosc ones, or the Asian pears?

Lisa: Yeah. Oh, yeah, Those are really good.

Jamie: Those are amazing. All those plums they sell.

Lisa: The plums are so good.

Jamie: Nectarines are an interesting one because those used to be controversial.

Lisa: Really?

Jamie: I forget exactly what it was, if they attract a certain thing or they’re worried about hybrid. Hybridization or whatever. But for a long time we didn’t have nectarines. And now, like, I’ll go grab them now. And. Man. And they dry really well too, so I’ll dehydrate those.

Lisa: I don’t thing I’ve had a local nectarine yet.

Jamie: I think I want to say I get them at McLean’s.

Lisa: Okay, cool. Is there anything that you. That you used to have here or used to enjoy here, that isn’t here anymore that you really miss, or that you think Palisade is missing?

Jamie: I’m going through in my head all the things that I was. I mean, we have a lot of the things that we used to have. It hasn’t changed that much. You know, one of the complaints that I hear is restaurant stuff. And if you’ve been here for over 15 years, you will remember that we could not keep a restaurant in business for more than a year, or two years. And now we’ve got five. And plus the pizzeria and two pizza places. Oh, I know what it is. I know what I miss, it’s home football games.

Lisa: Oh, yeah.

Jamie: And so I tell people about this all the time. Where the laundromat is now, it used to be the pizzeria and now where El Rey is. That was a social gathering spot when I was a kid because the football games were at the Peach Bowl and they had lights and they played at night. And after the game everybody would just walk to the pizzeria. And that was cool. And so something like that. I. I would love it if our football games were in Palisade. Those were fun. And they did that through 97, I think. 97, 98 was about the end of that. And then they’ve been in Stocker. But it’s just like I went to the basketball games last night. It’s so fun to go to local things.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. Draws a lot of people out.

Jamie: Having football here, it draws people out and then they go somewhere afterwards. That was a cool thing. And I remember, you know, at Stocker they have all that security, but here at Peach Bowl, all the kids would play football behind the end zone. There was a massive football game behind the end zone. And when they moved the football games to the. To the new high school, there’s the practice field there. So all the kids were always playing there. And that’s, you know, I was talking to the girls basketball coach, Don Bavor, about that, because he’s got this great following of middle school girls that just stalk the basketball team. And I said, that’s it. That’s what you want. And all the programs need that of, these younger kids that look up to the older kids, like they’re, you know, idols and they want to play and they want to practice and that gets them working towards something. And that’s your next generation. And I remember when it was like that with football in town, because we would have. And I don’t think you can do that at Stocker at all. I don’t know where the kids would go run around.

Lisa: Yeah. No. Oh my gosh. I know growing up, going to games, you’d play under the bleachers and just generally do dangerous things. So yeah, no, that’s a good one.

Jamie: I mean, we’ve got, we’ve got good ice cream places. We’ve got good restaurants. We have pizza. We’ve got great pizza. You know, I think as much as people say, man, this place has changed a ton, it hasn’t changed that much. You know, like, our emphasis is still agriculture. You know, everybody loves it. You just have more people coming to enjoy it and observe it, and that’s fine. But it’s still, especially for most of the weekdays, it’s still pretty quiet.

Lisa: Yeah. In the winter it’s still very quiet.

Jamie: You still have a lot of town people walking around and people are still really friendly. And, you know, we haven’t had a ton of expansion and we haven’t had a bunch of peach orchards ripped out. So I think it’s. It’s stayed pretty stable. I think it’s kept its character pretty nice. So it isn’t one of the. You know, when I see a city like Glenwood that’s changed dramatically where it’s not recognizable, that scares me. We’re not like that. And so it’s still a lot of the place I remember. So.

Lisa: Yeah. And it seems like with town board and planning commission and staff and everything, there really is that focus on keeping Palisade what Palisade is, versus growth for growth’s sake.

Jamie: Yeah. And I think that that was really codified with the Palisade game plan. And I was really relieved when that came out because that gave us legislative teeth to do what everybody wanted us to be able to do. Because before, you know, when you’re making those decisions on the board, you have to follow rules. You can’t just do whatever you want. You can’t just say, I don’t want this because I don’t like it. You have to have a basis, because those applicants have a basis for what they want. They have rights. They have, you know, this is what this is. And being able to say for sure this isn’t what Palisade wants. It’s written right here. This is, these are our wishes, this is our thing. Man, that was a great thing to get done. And the planning commission and the board worked really hard on that. And that’s, that’s a great thing. And I’m grateful for that too. And I think that’s helped keep everything the way we want it to be.

Lisa: Yeah. It makes sense to have that community. It’s like a community document that says, this is who we are, this is what we want to be. And you have that framework to evaluate everything that comes before you. So it’s essential.

Jamie: You know and as a citizen, you can use that. If there’s something that is brought up, that’s an application and you want to speak publicly, you can say, obviously you want to be correct about it. If you study it and you understand it and you can see, hey, this is explicitly not a part of what we all agreed to. You can make that claim. And it’s a compelling argument and I appreciate that. So that’s a good, productive way for people to, you know, really kind of express what they. What they feel.

Lisa: Yeah. Good tip.

Jamie: Here’s a funny story. I was talking to my students. So I’m also a teacher. I was talking to my students about how ChatGPT gets information. And we were talking about the pros and the cons of it. And I was talking to them about metadata and it’s like a super Google and how it just pulls from stuff. And they don’t have access to it on their computers, they can’t use it, but I can access it on mine. And I said, here, I’ll give you an example. Let’s see what happens. I took a shot. This could have gone bad. It wasn’t going to go bad, but I just put into ChatGPT is Jamie Somerville from Palisade a good boy?

Lisa: Oh boy.

Jamie: And it was interesting that all of the things that it pulled from were the Palisade Post. Which is our little, you know, we have an on-again, off- again online paper. Are you ChatGPTing right now?

Lisa: I’m just gonna Google it and see.

Jamie: So but some of my comments on other podcasts and then everything from my time on the board and it said, “so we feel pretty good that he’s a good boy.” And then it put a little dog emoji next to me and I was like, thank you, ChatGPT.

Lisa: That’s hilarious. Let’s see if it knows. Jamie Somerville is a well known figure in the Palisade, Colorado community.

Jamie: And he asks really weird questions to us.

Lisa: They are not making, the Google AI is not making a judgment on your status of whether or not you’re a good boy.

Jamie: So you use. Is that. What is that Gemini?

Lisa: Yeah. Look at this one. Opinions on him in public forums appear mixed with some of your reactions. Oh, God. I don’t ever want to Google myself. Like this.

Jamie: I’m gruff.

Lisa: That’s hilarious.

Jamie: He can’t even grow facial hair. But I’m gruff.

Lisa: That’s really scary. Anyway, now this will be more data about you that it might change its mind after.

Jamie: I’ve gotta get better press. I don’t think that came up on my ChatGPT search.

Lisa: The grouch.

Jamie: No.

Lisa: It hadn’t taken that into account yet. It hadn’t crawled, that page yet, I guess.

Jamie: Yeah. It will now though, because of this.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie: When you ask, am I a good boy? They’re like, no, he’s so grouchy. He got named the town grouch.

Lisa: Yeah. Well, it does know that the grouch is a good-spirited program. Somehow. Good-natured. Somehow it knows that.

Thanks to Jamie for entertaining me with his grouchiness. And be sure to follow the Palisade Lions Club for more details about the 2026 and future grouch contests.

Stay tuned for the next episode, Town Grouch Part 2: Grouches of Palisade Past, where we’ll hear from Mary Lincoln, JJ Fletcher, and other past town grouches on what their time as the grouch meant to them. We’ll also dive into the history of Palisade’s grouch contest and learn about other town grouches across North America.

The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend, by Geoff Roper.

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.

A couple special guests join me for my favorite family Christmas tree stories.

The music in this episode is O Christmas Tree by Julius H. from Pixabay.  

 

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Transcript:

Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade Podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara. Today, in honor of the holiday season, I wanted to share a couple of my favorite Christmas tree stories from my family storybook. And I have two very special guests joining me by Zoom to help provide commentary on these stories.

Mom: Hi, Lisa. This is Mom.

Dad: Hi, Lisa. It’s Dad. Otherwise known as Bob and Carolyn McNamara.

This year, Paul and I cut our first live Christmas tree for our own home. We’ve spent over 20 Christmases together, but we usually don’t get a tree, or we’ll get a tiny one from the grocery store. There was one year I even made a tree out of a box and hung ornaments on it with pushpins. That was our first year in Palisade and we had a lot of boxes lying around.

But this year, we joined in the beloved local tradition of buying a National Forest Service Christmas tree permit, driving up to the Grand Mesa National Forest, hiking off into the snowy woods, and coming back out with our own festive, patchy, scraggly little tree.

Cutting your own tree is such a proud Colorado tradition that it’s hard to find a tree anywhere else in western Colorado. Sure, there are a few at the grocery and hardware stores and you can buy one from the Boy Scouts’ fundraisers, but these trees, even the ones bought with good intentions, seem to be the trees of second choice for those looking for a live tree. People tend to admit these trees’ provenance under their breath, as if it’s a thing to be ashamed of that they’ve brought home a store-bought tree.

Growing up in the woods of central New York, next to an abandoned tree farm and surrounded by acres of woodland, my family was also loathe to buy a Christmas tree from a store when I was growing up. We only ever cut our own Christmas trees. These tree-cutting expeditions were usually intense, with a long, cold, snowy search for just the right tree and then a few tense minutes as my Dad and Mom worked to get a way-too-big tree inside our house and stood up just right.

Dad: There was a time when we were trying to have live trees. I don’t know if you remember that, but.

Mom: Oh, all the way up through just the last five, six years.

Dad: Yeah. We would actually dig one or, or buy one that was a live tree and try to keep it alive. And then we put it outside after Christmas. We didn’t have too much success with that. I think most of them died.

Lisa: I do remember that now. I forgot about that. yeah, I remember you guys put it outside for the birds to hang out on after Christmas.

Dad: Yeah, that we still do. Well, we used to.

Mom: We used to. On our 24 foot trees. We used to drag them out through the three foot door opening and you know, spray needles everywhere. So we finally got the great idea of limbing it. So we took it limb by limb out the door. It was a really strange looking tree when it was out in the snow bank.

Dad: I think we had, we had some that maybe were 16 feet tall.

Mom: I think more than that because we had them in the room between the library and the living room. And it went right up to the clerestory windows.

Dad: Yeah.

Mom: Closer to 20.

Dad: Yeah. well, there was that one tree that I, that I made up. Remember that one? That wasn’t. Doesn’t seem like that was terribly long ago. I had a cedar pole and I drilled holes in and I put pine and hemlock and spruce boughs in the holes.

Mom: And one year when we felled the tree, it broke the top of it off. So we had to sort of glue and.

Dad: That’s right. You know, we drilled holes.

Mom: Wire it back together.

Dad: We drilled a hole up there and down there and stuck a rod in there.

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Mom: We didn’t want to waste the tree. Worked okay.

Paul joined my family on the tree cutting expedition one year, and flashbacks to that experience shone in his eyes when I told him that I wanted to cut our own tree this year. I think we went over-the-top for Paul, back in the day, trying to give him a true McNamara tree-cutting experience.

Lisa: When I told Paul I wanted to cut down a tree this year since we were going to be here, he kind of was like, I don’t know about that. Because I think he was remembering when we took him out on an expedition.

Dad: We dragged that great big tree. Yeah. One time. I remember the four of us doing it.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. So I think he was thinking that’s what it was going to go like. But like, I just wanted a scraggly little tree. That’s fine. So it was so light you could just carry it out by one hand.

Mom: It’s really cute, though.

Lisa: Now you, now that you have an artificial tree, do you miss the hunt for the perfect tree every year?

Mom: No.

Dad: Well, yeah, I didn’t mind going out and getting a tree, but of course it was pretty difficult to decide on the same tree. Both of us decide on the same tree. I’d say, hey, this one looks good. She’d say, no, no, I don’t like it.

Mom: Well, first you’d have to brush off, like, two feet of snow. And then you’d have to dig down into it to see what the base looked like.

Dad: And so that was always pretty tough. Agreeing on the tree.

Lisa: Definitely. I think that’s pretty universal.

Dad: Yeah.

Long hikes, trudging through deep snow with a big, heavy, sappy tree, snow in the boots, those were always part of the McNamara tree-hunting experience. But getting lost was one thing we never worried about. That’s because one year when my Dad was growing up, he went out to cut a tree with his Dad and older brother John and they got very, very lost, and that’s an experience that you learn from.

My Dad wrote this story down 30 years ago. When we chatted on Zoom, I had just found it again and I kind of sprung it on him, so we took a minute to refresh our memories of the story.

Dad: I’m just looking at it right now. It looks pretty detailed. I was wondering how, it looks like I put some thought into it, huh?

Lisa: So what I was curious about is, like, how old were you when this happened? Or do you remember about.

Dad: Yeah, I was. I was wondering about that. It was probably 13 or 14, I’m guessing. You know, we used to. We used to, I was trying to get you back here now. Oh there you are. We used to tromp around in the woods back there. We had probably. I think we had 49 acres. But, that was really rural. I mean, still. It’s still rural. It’s not. Hasn’t changed much, except they paved the road. But, there’s big blocks of forest between the few roads, and so you can really get lost back in there. And we. We’d tromp around back in there a little bit, but didn’t go very far from the house. So I really didn’t know the woods very well.

Dad: I had seen a tree there up in back of the house. And I. I told dad, this would make a nice Christmas tree. So let’s. Let’s go get it. So we grabbed the saw and we went up looking for the tree, and we never found it.

Here’s the first story, written by my Dad.

“It was so dark we couldn’t see the ground where we stood, so each step was an adventure, wandering through the middle of a hemlock swamp.”

Dad: Wow. I started right off with, like, “it was a dark and stormy night” sentence, didn’t I?

“The hemlock tree grows in dense thickets in the wilds of rural Vienna, where conditions are ideal. Flat bottomland near meandering prune juice streams is the trees’ preferred homeland. After generations of domination of tree after hemlock tree growing up from the canopy in a relentless stretch for the light, the crowns interlock branches and needles with the other members of the colony and catch almost every photon of sun before it can reach the moist ground below. The lower branches being useless in the absence of light, die but remain rigid and tangled to poke and tear at anything that stumbles past. The most successful individuals manage to reach above the canopy and enjoy a glorious spurt of growth until the wind, now having something to grab hold of, levers the tree to the ground, pulling its shallow roots from the soggy soil, leaving a water filled hole and a wall of latticed sticks.

“It was cold, the ground was discontinuously covered with snow and the holes were skinned with ice. But not enough ice to hold up even a young kid. We broke through the icy traps constantly, as we pushed and slogged our way toward a red light in the distance. I reached out my foot, tentatively probing for the ground, when the patch I groped for exploded in a flurry of snow and crashing branches. My heart pounded, adrenaline pumped through my veins until Dad reassured me and himself, that it was just a deer we had disturbed from its nighttime bed.”

Dad: Oh yeah, the deer. I remember the deer.

“We stopped to regain our bearings. Dad, John, and I had left the house around 4:00 in the afternoon to get our Christmas tree. We had 48 acres of land covered with trees, so we were sure that we could find a perfect specimen. In fact, I had recently been looking at several of them just inside the woods behind the flag pole. We grabbed a saw and went up there to get one before supper.

“We found a nice tree just a hundred feet from the edge of the field, but we passed it up for another beauty that we could see through the trees a hundred feet further back. When we got close to that one it looked all right but we knew we could do better. Another nice specimen was displayed against the black backdrop of the deepening woods to our left. We circled it and decided after some deliberation that it would do, especially since the short winter day was coming to a peach colored end. We dragged our rusty hand saw through it with some difficulty and ended the forest phase of its life.

“We grabbed hold of the trunk and towed the find triumphantly toward the house…but which way was the house? We all had differing opinions on that topic. After some debate we trudged off through the underbrush.”

Mom: So how did you not find your way back? Wasn’t there snow on the ground?

Dad: Like, you know, could we follow our tracks back?

Mom: Yeah.

Dad: Probably. Maybe there wasn’t quite enough for that.

Lisa: He said it was discontinuously covered with snow.

Dad: Yeah.

Mom: Discontinuous?

Lisa: Discontinuously. I googled it. I had to google it. I was like, what is discontinuously? Patchy. It’s patchy.

“We dragged the prize for a long distance, certainly farther than we had come from the field, then with darkness falling and the sheepish realization that we were lost descending upon us, we abandoned the needled burden and turned our attention to survival.”

Dad: OK, I remember that.

Mom: Abandoned the needled burden? Turned our attention to survival? Did you bring water and matches with you?

Dad: No. We probably weren’t even that well-dressed either.

Mom: You didn’t even have a flashlight?

Dad: No.

Lisa: They probably thought, oh, we’ll just run up there and do this real quick and be done in like 10 minutes. Right?

Dad: Yeah, it was.

Mom: Yeah. But this time, if you started at four, by five, it’s dark.

“We reasoned that if we walked in a straight line we would eventually come to a road. Concentrating on an absolutely axial direction we tripped and forced our way across the patchy snow fields and through the arboreal obstacles into the gathering gloom. Before long our spirits lifted, we saw tracks in the snow, signs of human presence, three sets of tracks, one adult, two kids…our tracks of course. We had been traveling in circles. We were hopelessly lost now and it was deep woods dark.

“Meanwhile, back at the house, supper was cooked and cold and Mom was worried. She knew we weren’t still out there by choice so she called Uncle Don. Don called out the fire department and they mustered a search party for the lost trio. A troop of Camden’s finest quickly fanned out to comb the woods for us.

“While the darkness was our enemy in one sense, it was our salvation in another. We spotted the familiar radar towers through the trees over on Babcock Road. The red beacon was going to be our guidance system out of this mess. We were blindly feeling our way along, struggling to keep sight of the feeble red glow when we spooked the deer, or when the deer spooked us. Regaining our courage, we pressed on toward the towers, certain that we would intersect the road soon.

“A strange and foreign sound brought us all to a sudden stop. Was it a voice? We listened breathlessly, then it came again. Someone was yelling, and horns were blowing. We answered back, “over here, we’re over here!” Calling back and forth, we were finally joined with our rescuers. They led us to Maple Flats Road where there was an assembly of flashing red lights and familiar faces trying to maintain a professional attitude about the gravity of the situation.

“We were delivered safely home, a little scratched and quite cold, but after a hot cup of tea and a wrap in a blanket, we were fine. Unfortunately, we can’t say the same for the poor tree. It still lies forlornly in a heap somewhere deep in the Peck Street wilderness to this day.”

My Dad went on to talk about how rough life was for their Christmas trees, even once they were safely back in their home.

[Once we procured a beautiful Christmas tree,] “we were then ready to adorn it with a mantle of decorations. The sparkling treasures were kept in a big mess in the closet, along with the trusty stand. The stand was a marvel of engineering and craftsmanship, sturdy, and designed for stability and rigidity with an economy of materials. Cost: $2.99.

“Decorating the tree was a family affair, with 6 kids of various ages and two adults crowded around the tree which was stuffed in a corner of the room, the outcome was predictably chaotic. Several delicate glass bulbs were crushed and strands of light bulbs temperamentally glowed and went out. Finally the crowning touch was applied, the entire tree was draped with icicles so scarcely a trace of green remained. Dad meticulously placed them a few at a time, hanging over the branches equally and untwisted, while we kids flung them by handsfull up toward the top and watched them drift down on the limbs like silver stringy snow. Finally it was done and we all stood back to admire our work of art. That’s when one of us would trip over the cord, yank it out of the socket, and pull the tree forward, just a fraction out of balance is all it took to upset the fine geometry of the trusty stand, and the tree came gracefully floating to the floor, icicles streaming in the tailwind. It struck with a tinkle and a crunch and the compression of the impact blew icicles all over the room, while we stood, mouths agape, helpless.

“We re-erected the tree, spirits only slightly dampened, readjusted the remaining ornaments, swept up the glass, got the lights all working again, and picked up most of the icicles. The next day, while playing tapeball, one of us made a diving catch on a sharp line drive and crashed into the tree sending bulbs, ornaments and icicles flying in every direction.

“The day after that the dog got in the house and tore all over in frenzied excitement at spending a few seconds in the warm and on one of his laps around the house being chased by three shouting kids, he ran through the tree and spun it to the floor.

“By Christmas the tree had been on the floor many times and the decoration scheme bore no resemblance to the original arrangement. Our supply of delicate ornaments was reduced to a precious few and the spare bulb store was severely depleted. We found icicles in our beds, our food, the refrigerator, and everywhere else in the house until July.

“In later years we took to wiring the tree to the walls and we discovered an ingenious invention, plastic ornaments. But the icicles were still a crucial element in our decorating scheme and we still stood by that amazing $2.99 stand.” -Bob McNamara

Mom: How many times it fell on the floor!

Dad: Oh, yeah, it always fell on the floor.

Lisa: What is tape ball?

Dad: Oh, well, it was just a. Improvisation. Improvisation for playing baseball inside the house. We’d just take a wad of masking tape, wad it all up, and use that for the ball.

Lisa: That sounds annoying to the parents.

Dad: My mother must have been pretty tolerant, huh?

Lisa: Seems like. So do you remember when you guys were lost? Do you remember, like, what your Dad said or any. Or what John said or anything like that? Was he kind of freaked out or did he stay calm?

Dad: Oh, no, he stayed. He stayed calm and he wasn’t. He wasn’t really scared. But.

Mom: Your father, or John?

Dad: He was embarrassed, but, my father, of course he was embarrassed. When we came out, we had to be rescued by the rescue squad. But, you know, us kids were scared, probably.

Lisa: Oh, I bet. And so we never, like, we would go out and we would go venture a ways, but we would never get lost. Like, I don’t remember ever getting lost or even being worried we were going to get lost. It never even. That never crossed my mind. It’s more just like how hard it was to get through the snow. But did, I bet that left an impression on you? Where you were made. You made sure you wouldn’t get lost when we went out with you.

Dad: I don’t know. We got. We got lost, quite often, actually.

Lisa: I don’t remember it.

Dad: No, I mean, when we were kids.

Lisa: Oh. Oh. Oh, gotcha.

Mom: The only time we got, not really lost but off the trail, were numerous times in the Adirondacks. You learned not to follow your father. You’d wait, he’d go up a quarter of a mile, come back down. No, no, that’s not the way.

Dad: Oh, that was Macomb. Climbing Macomb that one time.

Mom: Yeah. Probably other ones too, but.

Dad: When I’m leading bushwhack hikes, and we get lost, or I. I don’t say I’m lost, I just say I don’t know exactly where I am right now. And then I tell them, you know, I’ll stop and get my compass out and I’ll tell them all, I don’t get my compass out until we’re lost.

Back here in Colorado, families have been cutting their own Christmas trees in the national forest and BLM lands for generations. Besides making (good or bad) memories to last a lifetime, cutting trees also improves forest health. According to the National Forest Service, “The permit system helps thin densely populated stands of small-diameter trees. Local forest health experts identify areas that benefit from thinning trees [and these trees] tend to be the perfect size for Christmas trees. Removing these trees in designated areas helps other trees grow larger and can open areas that provide forage for wildlife.” 

This year when we went out into the woods in search of our own little tree, I promised I would take it easy on Paul and not get us lost. I wasn’t worried about finding the perfect tree, because I specifically wanted a patchy, scraggly little tree – not that you have much choice with natural trees! I wanted a little tree in honor of a story that my Grandpa Paul, my mom’s dad, wrote about my first Christmas tree. Here’s that story, written December 20th, 1981, when I was just a few months old.

“Today, on the way home from your log cabin, Grandma Paul mentioned the small, frail Christmas tree outside your door. Grandma said that your Daddy and Mommy probably had a good reason for picking this particular tree.

“I told Grandma that I knew why they picked that tree, because I know how your Dad and Mom feel about trees. Your Dad and Mom went out to get the most beautiful and tall Christmas tree, just for you, because it was to be your first Christmas. Well they walked for miles, and they saw many beautiful trees, but they couldn’t make up their minds on which one to take home. And in the center of all the trees was this frail looking tree. They were about to pass it by, when they heard this little tree say, “Oh please won’t you take me home, because I am so lonely out here in the cold. All my brother and sister trees are gone, and I am sure they made many children happy. They were all big and strong and beautiful.”

“Then your Daddy said, “How come all the other trees are so big, and you are so small?”

“The little tree said, “I would have been big and strong too, but I sheltered so many birds in my loving branches, and deer would eat the top branches off of me, because I am a special tree.”

“Then your Mom said, “I don’t know, I wanted something bigger for our little girl’s first Christmas.”

“At that remark, the little tree began to cry, and said, “All my life I have been praying for someone to take me home. All the people come by and look at me, and walk on, and some say cruel things. Then I would see the more beautiful trees taken home, and I knew that they were trimmed with balls, and tinsel, and lights, and they would make many children happy. And my heart would break.”

“Well your Dad and Mom didn’t know what to do, and they started to walk away, like all the other people, and leave the little tree. They walked a short distance, and then stopped and looked at each other. For they knew what was in each others’ heart. So they came back to the little tree.

“Seeing your Mom and Dad coming back, the little tree glowed like the sun, and said, “Please take me home to your little girl Lisa, and we will all have a beautiful Christmas.”

“Now your Mom and Dad wondered how this little tree knew the name of their daughter, who is only 3 1/2 months old. So they knew that this was truly a very special tree, for a very special little girl. And so they brought it home, and set it up, and trimmed it with balls, and lights, and candy canes, and everything nice.

“And the next time that Grandma and Grandpa Paul saw the little tree, it was crying with joy, and we could feel the love that this adorable little tree was sending out to everyone who saw it.

“And Lisa dear, I hope you will always remember the story of this special little tree, and thank your Mom and Dad for bringing it home. Have a very Merry Christmas, and I pray that you will grow up to be something special, just like your first Christmas tree.

“With all our love, Grandma and Grandpa Paul”

Quick aside from this sweet tale: it cracks me up that you could interpret this wish as my Grandpa basically saying he wants me to be scraggly, frail, and giving of myself to the point it hurts me when I grow up. I know that’s not what he meant, but darn, if that isn’t actually how I kind of turned out (laughs)…

Anyway, back to the story. I’ve always wondered how closely it might have tracked to the truth. My parents dug out a photo of me with my first Christmas tree and sent it to me before our Zoom call.

Dad: So, I don’t remember that tree, but, it doesn’t look that bad in the picture.

Lisa: It doesn’t look that bad.

Mom: Well, it was a hemlock.

Dad: Yeah.

Lisa: Oh. Tree snobs.

Mom: That, or a pine.

Dad: Yeah, I don’t think we were rebelling against buying a tree. We just figured that why buy a tree when we live here in the woods and, you know, there’s trees all around us. But of course, hemlocks, or pines don’t make. Neither one makes a good tree because the limbs are so, you know, floppy that the ornaments just drag them right down.

Lisa: When I read them, it’s like, well, how much of this was really real? Like, especially Grandpa Paul’s. You know, the tree doesn’t look that bad. And how much of that was. Was real or what? I mean, do you remember him writing that at all?

Mom: I do remember getting it. Yeah. But, zero percent, as far as real.

Dad: Except that it was a hemlock tree. Did he say that?

Mom: No, no. But they saw the tree, and I think he just took pity on you and wanted to write something about it.

Dad: Yeah, it inspired him. Yeah. That was pretty creative, actually. I, That. That really is kind of surprising.

Mom: Yeah.

Dad: You wouldn’t, didn’t know him to be a creative writer.

Mom: Or a writer of anything, really.

Dad: I guess he had it in him when he got inspired.

Lisa: So did you cut the tree just from our land, then?

Mom: Yes. Yeah, just in the upper field. You know, we were always going to clear it off so that you’d have a place to play up there. And, we just walked around some and found this one and thought, good enough.

Dad: Well, you. You remember more about it than I do.

Mom: Yeah. And it fit in the space. That was the main thing.

My Mom said after the Zoom ended, “I was sorry to have to tell you that the story was completely made up. I think he just wanted to write you something so you would always have something from him.”

I’m not the least bit upset about that. I don’t think we’d still be talking about that tree, or reminiscing on other old memories, if this story had never been written. And what I can thank my parents for is saving the story for me over the years until I understood the value of it.

I treasure stories, especially those stories I have in the handwriting of those who told them. Recipes written or marked up by the cook’s own hand. Notes on the back of old photos. Treasure your stories, both invented and real.

My wish for your this season is that you take the time to write your stories down and share them with your friends and family.

I can’t wait to share more stories with you next year, continuing to explore the tales, history, and creative side of this unique place we call home. If you have a story you’d like to share, you can reach me at lisa(at)postcardsfrompalisade.com or message the Postcards From Palisade account on Facebook or Instagram.

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year. Here’s to a new year full of stories in 2026.

Mom: You want to hear a funny thing? Last year, Bob bought a wreath for me from John Kennedy’s wife. It was real pretty, live and everything. And I hung it in the bathroom. You probably remember it over the tub. Anyway, I think it was July. I happened to be walking through the bathroom and it caught my eye. July. It was still hanging there. And not one balsam needle had fallen. But, you know, and I thought, well, I got to get it down. And then I got distracted. Well, then a few days go by and I started smelling this really weird smell. And I thought, my God, you know, we need to clean the bathroom. Smell like cat piss, you know. So I finally got the, the wreath down and that’s what it was. She must have sprayed it with something?

Dad: Cat piss?

Mom: To keep the needles on. When I brought it out, out into the outside, that’s when I smelled it. And then after that, the smell went away. So I don’t know what she sprayed on it, but I don’t.

Dad: I’ll have to ask her sometime.

Mom: Seven months and it still didn’t drop a needle. So it was good.

The music in this episode is O Christmas Tree by Julius H. from Pixabay. 

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade. 

Priscilla Walker, current Vice Chairman and Founding Chairman of the Palisade Historical Society (historicpalisade.org), tells the fascinating story of how she and a dedicated team of volunteers pulled off an enormous effort to quite literally save history in 2014 when they kept 111 years of issues of the Palisade Tribune from destruction.    

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Transcript:

Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade Podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara. Palisade is most famous for its peaches, but there’s so much more happening in our little town. Join me as I chat with our community members to hear about how they are making Palisade a great place to live and visit.

Today I’m speaking with Priscilla Walker, current Vice Chairman and Founding Chairman of the Palisade Historical Society, about saving the Palisade Tribunes. Priscilla and a dedicated team of volunteers pulled off an enormous effort to quite literally save history in 2014 when they kept 111 years of issues of the Palisade Tribune from destruction.

The Palisade Tribune was the town’s newspaper of record from June 6, 1903 until March 13, 2014. It existed even before Palisade was incorporated as a town in April, 1904. Even today, eleven years after it ceased publishing, I still regularly hear people lamenting the loss of our local newspaper.

I knew, from attending the Historical Society’s monthly history talks, about the Historical Society’s current effort to digitize past issues of the Tribune. But I had no idea that this effort wouldn’t have existed without the 2014 work of a group of volunteers to rescue and preserve the physical copies of the newspaper.

I had to talk to Priscilla to learn more about this story. Join us today to hear all about how Priscilla discovered the papers were in danger, how a team of volunteers worked tirelessly to save them, putting in over 260 volunteer hours, and what their plan b was in case things didn’t go smoothly. And of course, we also take a few detours into the fascinating corners of Palisade history… all that and more on today’s Postcard from Palisade.

Priscilla: I’m glad you found the article because it needs updating.

Lisa: Okay, well, let me tell you how I found the article.

Priscilla: Perfect.

Lisa: Which is kind of a strange story, but, someone was asking me, okay, when did the Tribune cease printing? Do you know why? Things like that. So I really just did a search, and up pops this detailed history. And I’m reading it like, this is amazing. And again, you know, 2014. I think it was from?

Priscilla: March 2014. Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, I thought, I wonder if people today maybe that moved here recently are aware of this history.

Priscilla: Oh, probably not. You know, you go through life and some things are meant to happen. And this, I think, is one of those. That we were just destined to save the newspapers. In the article, I talk about how, the angels stepped up to do the work. The first, of course, was Susan Lorenzen Cesario, whose parents had been the editors for 20 years. And so she knew the importance of it. And when it got shut down, I texted her and said, oh, the Sentinel shut down the Tribune. She called Jay Seaton on his private line on Sunday because of the connection that her parents had been the editor and made him promise to give, you know, so there’s the first angel. The Historical Society started in 2010. And so for the first four years, we had an article about what we were doing almost every week in the Tribune. And the last two years we had historic photos of the week. I mean, they really helped us get started. And then the Sentinel bought them in 2012 and shut it down in 2014. And, you know, we sure don’t get the coverage we did when the Tribune existed. But, you know, then it was, well, what’s going to happen to the papers? And as the article says, there was a lot of, you know, the town was going to put them in a truck and take them over to the school they just tore down. And they need to be in, I mean these are hundred year old papers.

Lisa: More than 100, right? Some of them?

Priscilla: Yeah. From 1903. June 1903. And so they need to be, to preserve them in boxes. And we got paper that wouldn’t destroy them from the printer, CPC Printing. And then Bob Sweeney still owned the Tribune building and so I traded him a lifetime membership in the Historical Society if we could have access to the building. Because the first thing was to sort them. I mean the pictures in the article show they were just on shelves and in pieces.

Lisa: It’s painful to see they are crumbling.

Priscilla: Oh yes, and you know we have to touch them with special gloves and stuff. And then it was negotiating with the Sentinel to get permission to have them. I mean because they owned the copyright for the Tribune. And finally it took three or four months but finally I got a gift agreement or something and he made changes and so we went from there. So we had access to the building starting in June. The Sentinel had published it the last two years. When they bought it they agreed to publish it for two years. March 13, 2014 was the last issue. So it took us until June to get an agreement to get in. Betsy had left her lunch bag from the Slice O’ Life. She had a dessert and it was still on the table and the plants had died and you know, I mean it was just as you can imagine. The Tribunes were on shelves in back. But the worst thing for paper is air and light. And so we needed to protect them. The first thing we needed to do was sort them. So we had a couple of wonderful volunteers, Nancy Morrison and Syble (Seckinger). And fortunately Syble had not grown up here because I’d still be sorting them because I go through and see something and read it. And so you know, here’s this place that was just walked out of. And they had also printed the Fruita Times. Bob had the Fruita Times for a couple of years or how many ever years. And there were just stacks of Fruita Times that had never been. So we took them down to the Fruita the historical society there. And then started the process. Another angel was the company that came and shredded the payroll records and all of the things that just should not be public. We were only doing the Tribunes and Nancy and Sybil got, well, I gave them a calendar for starting in 1903, you know, so they could see which issues were missing. And they wrote down all of the stuff. I mean, it was very laborious.

Lisa: Oh I bet!

Priscilla: So then we went in, and then it was, you know, get rid of the stuff that we shouldn’t save and concentrate on the Tribunes and sort them chronologically and keep track of, you know, which issues we had. And that took, well, they were still working on it in November. The Realtor put a note. We hadn’t been in there for a while because Sybil and Nancy had gotten tired, and they’d done pretty much all of it, and they hadn’t been in there. And the Realtor just left a notice said, it’s been sold. The closing is. And we didn’t have a month’s notice.

Lisa: Oh, my goodness.

Priscilla: Another angel was the woman at the Hollinger Metal Edge Company that worked over Veterans Day weekend to get us 63 boxes to put the papers in so they could be moved. And we did get a grant from CHRAB, the Colorado State (Historical) Records Advisory Board, for $5,000 to buy these metal, Hollinger Metal Edge boxes. And then, so I immediately call Susan. She and Lee came, and they were there a half hour before the boxes arrived, and, you know, put them in the boxes and label. I mean, they were very, wonderful. And another angel were Ralph and Nancy Eighmy, who had an extra house, and they agreed to store them. So we moved the shelves and they had them for five and a half years because we really didn’t have a place until we got the museum in 2021. We didn’t have another place to store them. And one of the tragedies so Susan and Lee came and they had a pickup, and they put them in and moved everything. And one of the interesting things, the entire 1960 issues are missing. Somebody borrowed them and never brought them back. And I had found one in my house. My mother saved it because my brother or I had done something, and so she saved it. So I had given it to Bob Dougherty, who was the editor, before Betsy. And, he just put it on an inbox or something. And so we were sorting through, we found it and so. And we got another one. So we have two 1960 issues. Just a lot of wonderful people that stepped up at the right time. And bless her heart, Susan Lorenzen fell and, you know, died from the fall less than two years later. I mean, if this had happened any other time, you know. So I think that’s the part where this was meant to be. So then we start, digitizing. And that’s really where the story on our website stops.

Lisa: Yeah, on the website it was saying, okay, so the next step is going to be to digitize. And I know so much has been done since then, since twelve years ago.

Priscilla: Oh yeah. I mean, we were working with the Mesa County Library and the museum. And John Lindstrom was going with the microfilm that the museum had. I mean, it was just, in fact, Susan, who had been a teacher at a middle school in Denver, had the. She phrased it exactly right. She said, this endeavor has no hope of simple. She’d teach her kids, you know, to quote Shakespeare and stuff. She was so eloquent and wonderful. But then we stumbled on the Colorado Virtual Library and you know, another angel. Leigh Jeremias and Regan Harper have been so helpful. We send what we can, the originals or the ones that are microfilmed, and they digitize them. And it’s not an inexpensive process. It’s like a buck and a quarter a page. And, you know, there were probably 5,500 issues printed because we’re missing 50 of the 1960 issues. We won’t have, you know, all of them. And most years we have most of them. But, you know, there are some holes. But we sort them, well, they’ve been in chronological order and we sort them and send them to Denver and they digitize them, or they, you know, they microfilm them and then they send that to, or they’ve been sending it to Israel, where they do optical character reader. So the machine looks at the original papers, some of which have creases and you know, whatever.

Lisa: Sure, little tears, probably, missing pieces.

Priscilla: And they come up with a serif screen of what they think it says. And that’s been another interesting process. Like Fruita is Pruita in the OCR. So I have gone in and corrected 150 Pruitas to make them Fruita. Because we have new statistics on that that she just gave us. In the last 90 days the Tribune had 5,500 views. I mean this is a newspaper that probably only had a few hundred, maybe 1,000 subscribers ever. In the last 12 months we’ve had 19,773 views of the Tribune. Now some of them are the same person. So in 90 days it was 5,500. And in that 90 day period the Tribune ranks 22^nd out of 932 titles. there were 2,642 active users of the Tribune. One of the reasons I think it’s so popular is not just Palisade news, but it had Rapid Creek, it had Collbran, it had Fruita, it had East Orchard. There were columns around, even articles from the Sentinel or whatever, Grand Junction. National news, state news, national news, international news. In four or eight pages originally you could get a real sense of what was going on in the world. And that’s, you know, because some of the other papers were so long, you know, and they had to fill space. You’d have to read a lot to get the same amount that the Tribune would get in just a few words.

Lisa: Well, and what’s so cool about that is adding the searchability now with all of the digitized issues.

Priscilla: It’s huge.

Lisa: Like I can just go on there and put in any search term and it’s so easy to find information now.

Priscilla: Oh! And the Historical Society, we’re learning stuff, things that we thought like oral histories. I mean we love them. But it’s memory and some people’s memories are better than others. Lisa: For sure. Yeah. Priscilla: But yeah, the search capability and what we love, they’re on the Colorado Historic Newspaper and they’re also on Plains to Peaks, which is Wyoming. So if you have family or relatives or friends that were in Wyoming, you can also go there and they’ll give you Wyoming papers. And this is free. I mean, this is, you know, you have to sign up. And especially if you’re gonna correct, you sign in so they know what you’re, you know, what you’re up to. But to have this success because of, you know, it was meant to be that whoever directs this was.

Lisa: That’s so cool.

Priscilla: I also want to call out the wonderful, the Lorenzen family, especially John Lorenzen, has donated so much money to us so that we can get the Tribunes digitized. Altrusa. I mean, there’s some, some big, you know, Jeff Johnson, there are several people that have given substantial amounts because when it was four or eight pages, now it’s 20. The next batch is going to be up to 2003, probably early next year. We’re up to 95 now, so we’ll have eight more years in a little bit. And I just sorted the 2000 to 2003, and it took three hours because I had to stop and read the articles.

Lisa: Yeah, now, that’s not that long ago. That’s. Oh, that’s great. So you send the papers to Denver, they put them on microfilm that, that goes to Israel. What’s, what’s the word you said?

Priscilla: OCR. Yeah, they’re digitized in Denver. They couldn’t be digitized in Grand Junction because we don’t have a scanner that’s big enough because you can’t roll them because of the, especially the 1903 issues. And now we’re into the bound ones. And that’s really good because it’s every issue. And, starting in like 2002 or so, in the Tribune was the Palisade Bulldog newspaper from the high school. I don’t know, I wasn’t here, but we were gone for a few years and the teacher. Maybe they quit teaching journalism or something. But I think Bob Dougherty, who was the editor, took on the journalism class and then included it and distributed it with the Tribunes.

Lisa: That’s cool.

Priscilla: So we’ll have high school news coming up in this next batch when it’s printed.

Lisa: Very cool. So after they’re digitized in Denver, then the original papers get sent back here and they’re stored. So they’ll always be here stored for physical copies.

Priscilla: Yes. And we just got another thousand dollars from Questers for more boxes. Again, they’re, we have the paper and they’re in the right kind of boxes that, because cardboard destroys, ordinary cardboard destroys photos and stuff.

Lisa: I mean, this might sound like a dumb question.

Priscilla: No, there are no dumb questions.

Lisa: Why was it so important that you were able to get these papers? You and the group of volunteers. Why did you care and why was it so important to get these?

Priscilla: Well, we had been accessing issues when, you know, Betsy or whoever would let us. Because, again, people’s memories and the things that are available weren’t like the newspaper. I mean, this was when news journalism was. And, you know, there’s some errors. But, I just. I think it’s vital. I mean, and we’re the historical society and we were trying to communicate Palisade’s interesting and unique history because, okay, Grand Junction is bigger. And that’s the history you hear about. We’re overlooked. Even though I think our history is more interesting. I mean, we have been growing the best peaches in the world for the last hundred and thirty years. And that may be boring to some people, but the nuances and, you know, especially for people who think their food comes from the grocery store. We want people to understand the challenges that have been overcome and the agriculture expertise that is here and the inventions and all those kinds of things. And the newspaper only helps. We just got. Let’s see. Do you want me to talk about how we just researched something?

Lisa: Yeah, that would be lovely, because one of my questions was going to be, what sorts of things have you done with the digitized papers? And what are you hearing from people about how they’re using them? So. That would be great.

Priscilla: Oh, you know, if 19,000 people are looking at them, you know. Okay, so Cameo, we’ve sort of encompassed Clifton and Cameo, and, you know, we’re in touch with Plateau Valley and we’ve helped them and Fruita as well. The small historical society, smaller ones. But a guy contacted us. His family had run the Cameo Mercantile. And, you know, generations later, they have this fur coat, a sheepherder coat that was given as collateral. The guy is, this is in the 1920s. The guy can’t afford to pay what he was buying at the store, so he left the coat, never came back. So we’re researching the family and who in the family were at the Cameo Mercantile? And what about, what did they do? Because one of the family members, also became like the Assistant Attorney General of Colorado. And interestingly, we got one of our researchers, Dave Cecuga, found on Facebook a photo of the Palisade post office. And he’s figured out which ones are where. And this is one, we think that was like one of the plaza. It was on the west side of Main Street. And here’s a guy, and it’s Wakob, as opposed to Wachob. So, but it’s a photo that the museum in Grand Junction has. So we’ve corrected them, the spelling, and I was looking up Baker Steam Cars the other day. This was a file in my basement. And it was Palisade people. The Bowers worked there. And so I was researching it and found that, like $70,000 worth of investment in the Baker Steam Company was from Palisade people, my grandfather and others. I would never have known that if we hadn’t been able to research that in the, you know, in the Tribune.

Lisa: That’s very cool.

Priscilla: Genealogy. I think that’s huge. Another one that’s interesting is, addresses what property was where. Now, the problem is, like, my grandfather’s property was Ranch, west of Palisade.

Lisa: Yeah, right. Descriptions have changed.

Priscilla: We found in the phone book that the Wachob property was in Mount Lincoln. So that made the search a little bit easier. And sure enough, the Tribune articles talk about Mount Lincoln, which you know, is like 36 and 3/10 Road or 1/10 Road. Yeah. And G Road.

Lisa: It is kind, it’s. It’s addicting because you just keep chasing these threads and you keep finding something else and then going further and further.

Priscilla: And obituaries, I mean there’s huge things you learn from obituaries. You know, now they don’t mention the first wives’ kids or. But this you get, you know, there’s the parents and there’s the sibling. I mean they’re, they’re very well done. And for people researching their family, I mean that’s huge. I have to believe of the 19,000 views, I’ve got to believe a certain percentage is looking up family members.

Lisa: Oh, I’m sure, I’m sure that’s a critical source for that information that probably wouldn’t have existed anywhere else.

Priscilla: You know, the legal records don’t convey what the person was like, like the, the obituaries, you know, and the well-written ones. And so that’s, you know, clearly, motivation for historic newspapers.

Lisa: Absolutely. So what do you use today to preserve history? What and how do you decide is preserved today?

Priscilla: Interestingly, I mean we have files, and boxes, you know, when people share things with us. And then I have a spreadsheet. Big museums have databases that they pay for. And, you know, we’re into Excel and Word. So that’s really what we’re doing now is to digitize photos. All the photos we get, if people give them to us, want them back, we digitize them, or keep them in a photo acceptable storage space.

Lisa: So say, though, from 2014 onward, after the, after the Palisade Tribune ceased publishing. I guess. What do we use as that source now? That source of truth? Or is there one?

Priscilla: Other than our newsletter? I don’t know. I mean, that’s really, that’s a great question. Because we’re not. They’re trying to put a sign up on Food Town of who the town grouches were. And so they’ve come to us. And because the Sentinel didn’t. And the last one on the sign is 2014. The Sentinel didn’t publish. And I’ve even talked to Bob Silbernagel, who has access to information or, you know, because I think the Sentinels really do digitize their recent ones. They’re just not publicly available.

Lisa: Okay.

Priscilla: But he looked through their record and couldn’t come up with a name. So it’s, “do you remember who was the,” you know, and we’re down to only three or four years, but it’s been through our records. The chamber apparently didn’t keep them or, you know, I don’t know because they were in charge of the. But we’ve been a source and we’re able to provide part of it is. We’ve, been around. We started in 2010. So we’ve been around enough that people are, they think of us. Oh, I’ll check with the Historical Society. I mean, another source that I found is Facebook. The actually the Hugus Building. We were researching and we got a copy of a book from the Craig Museum about the J.W. Hugus and Company. And then we looked through the Tribunes and the Chamber files and then, the woman that had the restaurant where the Blue Pig is, for a while, her stuff that she posted is still on Facebook.

Lisa: Oh wow. She passed away quite a while ago, right?

Priscilla: And she passed away years ago. Yeah. And so I suppose, in some aspects, for some things. Although there again, it’s like oral histories. It’s what you remember or what you put down or. Or what you want people to know or not.

Lisa: Yeah. Polished version of history. I was wondering if you were going to say Facebook, because so much of our community, even community-building now today is on Facebook.

Priscilla: Social media. Yeah. Good or bad. In the information we got from Leigh at the Colorado Virtual Library. In the last 30 days, there have been 1,600 views of the Tribune. I mean it just, it’s exponentially. I mean, we envisioned that it would be a good resource for us, but that this many people are also appreciating it and you know, sending in memberships and donations and stuff and just and genealogy is huge. I’ve had people contact and I put cousins in touch with each other that haven’t talked for a while because they both contacted us and shared their, you know, their information.

Lisa: Wow. And so you’re like, I feel like you know this person, you’re related to this other person. Yeah, that’s so cool.

Priscilla: And correcting oral histories, I mean that’s, you know, another thing that, you know, that the Tribunes especially are good for.

Lisa: Yeah, I know there are the oral histories on the Historical Society website that are so interesting.

Priscilla: Aren’t they? Yeah. We opted to do summaries. We initially did videos and edited them. The woman who couldn’t remember when her husband died and she said, uh, well, we edited that out. And then I realized nobody has CD players anymore. And we got them back. The families, after they passed away, the families didn’t keep them. And so what we’ve been doing then are summaries, because they’re searchable. You don’t have to listen to an hour and a half to see when they talked about the United Fruit Growers. So we’ve done summaries, and we have, the newest one is Salvador Rivas, who is a migrant worker who came to Palisade. And then he managed Mike Martin’s orchards, the Cutter Orchards, for years. And, so he gave us his oral history. We sat down with him for hours, and it’s in English and Spanish. And he worked with Margaret Talbott at the Child and Migrant Center. And she sent him to the farm worker convention when Cesar Chavez was the speaker. And he has that poster. So that’s in. I mean, that’s the other thing about having, you know, the summaries is you can also put, you know, photos and things. And Salvador plays the guitar, and his daughter put the videos of his original recordings. So we can click to them. You know, they’re on YouTube, and you can click to them. And that’s on our website now. I am so excited.

Lisa: Okay. I haven’t. I haven’t looked at that one yet.

Priscilla: It’s brand new!

Lisa: I’m excited to go look at it. I gotta go check that out.

Priscilla: Yeah. Originally, I mean, one of our early volunteers, he thought we could do 10 oral histories a month.

Lisa: That’s a lot of work.

Priscilla: Well, and every person is different. I mean, we had a form, and some people would fill out the form. They’d know exactly what they wanted to say, and they’d say it. And then there were people that you’d ask questions and, you know, and then there were people who didn’t want to be recorded because they, you know, for whatever reason, they didn’t want to be recorded. And others have been reluctant to sit down with our. We have volunteers, and we’re just. We’re struggling. I mean, I have a list of. And typically they’ll die before we get them recorded. I mean, we’ve lost that a lot. But that maybe is another thing that we are trying to do without a newspaper is to record some of the more recent oral histories.

Lisa: That’s tough because like you said, everybody’s different. Some people might just give you a yes or no answer. Some people might talk for an hour.

Priscilla: For an hour. Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. Interesting

Priscilla: Yeah, that’s been an interesting project. And it’s really slowed. I mean, we’ve gone years now without recording some that, but then we have some really exciting ones. You know, Barbara Bikki and other people that just are wonderful. And hers was, it was a recording that we summarized from a speech that she gave at a Christmas party, a family gathering, and they allowed us to tape it. And because she has spoken, I mean, she’s, you know, she emigrated from Hungary in 1956 and her cousin was a Baptist minister or uncle or aunt. And that’s why they came here. But it’s this incredible story about, you know, someone who emigrated to the United States and was fortunate enough to be able to figure out how to do that. This is the land of opportunity.

Lisa: Right? And then. Oh, that’s, okay. I’m gonna check that one out after this too.

Priscilla: Oh, yeah.

Lisa: So why is history important to you? Why did you get involved? Because you’re the founding, chairperson, chairman of the Palisade State Historical Society. So what made you start this up?

Priscilla: I guess, well, let’s see. It was a committee of the chamber, and I had been on the chamber board. And then we were gone for seven years and came back, and the chamber was Leif Johnson. He was the one that said, oh, gotta have a history. And it was interesting. Bill Floryancic said, well, you’ve started 10 years too late.

Lisa: That’s always true.

Priscilla: I think, you know, part of it is because we are so overlooked that, you know, we have this wonderful, unique story with all these interesting pioneers who could see what this place looked like with a little irrigation. And my family, my grandparents bought property in 1893 and built the house we live in in 1904. And we still. Kokopelli Orchards does our peaches now. But my family’s been growing peaches on that property for what is that? 130. How many ever years?

Lisa: Wow. That’s amazing.

Priscilla: And we don’t throw anything away. And so there was stuff in my basement that I was looking at to sort. And so I kind of got interested in that. And then Leif had this. And that’s how I met Harry Talbott. I mean, Harry was older than I am and his kids are younger. And so I never knew them growing up. And here they are, you know, this big fruit grower. So Harry and I got on this committee and started. And then one day, Leif just handed me the gavel. So that’s. That’s how I got to be.

Lisa: He said, you’re in charge now? That’s pretty funny.

Priscilla: So, yeah, that was my first idea, that maybe I’m the founding. And then we had some help from other organizations and got the bylaws and went through that formal process. And Bill Beckwith wrote the check for $400 so we could get incorporated as a nonprofit. And then it just. It was so obvious that it was so hard to find our history because it just wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t out there like it is with the Mesa County Historical Society, you know, and their oral history program and stuff that others were being. But the museum has been, you know, very helpful. And, at one point, there were, you know, because there was no museum in Palisade, people would give their stuff to the museum in Grand Junction, and a lot of it just got put in the basement. And so, we were fortunate enough, in one of the, you know, the times that when they came across stuff that said Palisade, they’d give it to me, like, photos and things. And I would scan them and give them back the digitized and original photos with the correct information. Because if you’re not here, it’s maybe harder. My favorite story is the Palisade library collection. My mother was on the Palisade library board, and they gave, in 1963, she did a history of Palisade and got people to give them photos and stuff. And there were 215 of them. And then the library board couldn’t keep them safe anymore, so they gave them to the museum. Well, the museum did the identification, and they had Colonel Bower, who’s one of our founders, as old man with pipe. Because Colonel Bower always smoked a pipe.

Lisa: Yeah. They had no idea who he was.

Priscilla: So I went through and gave them, you know, the corrected information and was thrilled that they would accept it.

Lisa: Yeah. What’s your favorite piece of Palisade history? Or what’s your favorite story about Palisade? If you have just one.

Priscilla: Oh! I have to pick? Boy, I don’t know. I’ve never thought to narrow it down. I mean, at the museum, we have the Aspinall Room, where Wayne Aspinall memorabilia and stuff is, because he was our congressman for 12 terms. And we have Cameo, which is, you know, is wonderful. And then the peach packing, and you know, we have videos of packing peaches and walking on stilts and then irrigation. And then we have the Palisade High School graduates, all the seniors in the 20th century. And the Tribunes, the original Tribunes and box labels. You know, it would have to be, peach growing is just so unique. And it doesn’t happen without our irrigation system. We have a, in fact, we surprised History Colorado with this. We have a display about the migrant cabins and the CCC camp. The civilian conservation camp where the German prisoners of war stayed in 1944 and they worked in the harvest in 44 and 45. History Colorado didn’t know that.

Lisa: Really!

Priscilla: I mean, boy, I don’t know. There’s so many unique little tidbits. The stilts and you know and packing peaches and just processing and how they. You know. Because growing peaches is different than other. I mean apples. They store them now with some sort of gas so that you don’t know if you have this year’s apples or last year’s because they’re just the same. Peaches. You put a stopwatch on. And if they don’t get somewhere at the right time. Just the perseverance maybe of people. The problem solving. The government puts up obstacles and they figure out how to work in spite of them. And just the working together, the common. I mean, I just think that’s, you know, something that is unique. And the Tribune communicates.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. That would. I mean there had to be a very special type to look at this valley, see what could happen here and then work together to make it happen.

Priscilla: Envision. Because the Ute Indians were here. But it was desert except for the river. And we’ve heard that they even avoided it because they thought it was cursed because nothing grew. And yet the settlers were like, a little bit of irrigation. The Mormons had done that in Utah, because our first orchards were by Whitewater and Rapid Creek. So they could divert the water into the orchards and you know, and then to build the roller dam. You know. I mean that’s a. There’s a wonderful story. We had the hundredth birthday of the roller dam. This was Harry’s idea to have a dam birthday party. But that roller dam works the same way it did in 1915. The only thing they’ve added is 120 electricity. They monitor the water level now, but the guy that lives there has to go adjust the rollers. And that, it’s unique because a lot of the dams in the world, the German design, are for power. Hydropower. And this is irrigation for the most part. The hydro came in with the Orchard Mesa irrigation district in 1933. I’m talking about history, not the Tribunes. I’m sorry.

Lisa: No, that’s okay. I mean, it’s so interesting though. It’s tough because it’s all connected, and it’s all so fascinating. It’s really hard. No, but that’s really interesting. And I mean, I was asking you what was your favorite story? Well, going back to the papers quick, though. So, everything turned out great, perfectly, through so many people’s hard work.

Priscilla: The angels, the people that just. At the right time, in the right place, you know, starting with Susan and on. I mean, it just, it was meant to be, I think.

Lisa: So many things had to fall into place and they did. But I am just curious, though. If you knew that they were there, you knew that they were at risk. If for some reason they didn’t let you take them, did you have a plan B to kidnap them? Because if it were me, I would have.

Priscilla: There were a couple of discussions along those lines, but without having, you know, the Sentinel, Grand Junction Media’s, permission, we wouldn’t have been able legally to do that. And so. And I think Jay. I sat next to him at a meeting, a 150/250 meeting, and he didn’t know what we had done. I mean, I think he was pleased. But, you know, we had to, we had to dot the I’s and cross the T’s as best we could, knowing as little as we knew.

Lisa: Right. So you could have had them, but you wouldn’t have been able to use them or do anything with them. That makes sense.

Priscilla: Yeah. And without that, you know, we wouldn’t have had CHRAB’s money for the boxes and, you know, and the help, the Colorado Virtual Library’s help. And. Yeah, I. You know, that’s interesting. There was a plan at midnight with trucks.

Lisa: Just in case?

Priscilla: I think that somebody talked about. But, you know, it’s like, where do you hide 5,500 issues? You know, I mean, it’s. It takes a lot of space. People are, you know, they come to the museum and it’s like, well, they’re just boxes. Why don’t you hide them? Why don’t you put them upstairs? And it’s like, no, we want people to understand. This is what they. this is what we have. This is what we had to deal with. And, and we still go back and look at. We have to research or get the photos. you know, a new photo from the cover page that didn’t come out as clear as it might have or. Or, you know, whatever it takes to research something. We do our best.

Lisa: Right. And I just. That physical representation of over a hundred years of history is also really cool.

Priscilla: It’s amazing.

Lisa: Is there anything else that you want to share about the newspapers, the Historical Society?

Priscilla: Let’s see. We appreciate everybody’s financial support for the Tribunes. It is one of our biggest expenses. And you know, and that they, that they enjoy using it. And if people are really bored, the correcting, you know, I was in the top 10 of correctors for a while and now it’s more like the top 25. But I think the, pandemic people stayed home and you know, did corrections. But like you know, the misspelling of the names. It’s so much more helpful to have, you know, to be able. Because it might be the only time that that person was mentioned and if their name’s spelled wrong then you’re not going to find them. But we appreciate everybody’s support, enthusiasm, and we’re so glad that we’ve been able. We’re, it’s one of the things we’re most proud of.

Lisa: It’s a huge accomplishment. Really.

Priscilla: You know, we’ll keep going.

Lisa: You still have what the 90s through 2000?

Priscilla: Let’s see, at Colorado Virtual library now is through 2003.

Lisa: Okay.

Priscilla: So that’ll be the next batch. So then that’s what, 11 years. And we also have Clifton Tribunes which are 99% the same as the Palisade Tribune. But you know, again it’s shared history. But we don’t quite know what to do with those. Just because they’re so similar. The front page in most of the articles are really about Palisade. Unless there was something that, you know, was unique to Clifton that got covered that week because it was, you know, just double the work for Bob Dougherty. The saddest thing, he passed away in the last couple of years. And here’s a man who wrote obituaries for a living and, you know, and nobody. His obituary never appeared in the Sentinel. I mean, and nobody, I think, knew enough about him to make it, you know, he was kind of a strange and.

Lisa: That’s depressing!

Priscilla: Yeah. Somebody else was, you know, also remorseful that, here’s a guy who helped us understand. And then we don’t know his details.

Lisa: Well, that is just a perfect reminder just to write things down.

Priscilla: Oh, yeah.

Lisa: And things that we maybe don’t think are newsworthy today, they could be newsworthy in the future. So documentation is so important.

Priscilla: And especially in oral histories, you find people that just don’t want attention. They have done so, we’ve found several of these. Palisade people that have done so much, and they’re just very, you know, they’re not. It’s not all about them. That they’re very, sharing of, you know, and to drag information out of them, you know, which I have done, as best I can. But it’s, you know, they’re just unassuming and they don’t want to be in the spotlight. So that makes some oral histories hard to come by.

Lisa: How do you get information out of people who don’t want to share? If I can steal some skills from you for the future. Not talking about you, but sometimes I do talk to somebody who wants to talk to me but is very reticent. So I’m curious.

Priscilla: Boy, you know, it’s. It’s just pretty much, keep approaching them but not, tell me this or I’ll, you know, just once they’re confident that, you know, you’re not going to embarrass them or shine a public light on them or something. That it’s for history. One of our books is the History of Fruit and Wine in Palisade. And there’s a lot of books about the winery side, but none of them say what ours says. And Doug Caskey at the wine, had me send a copy of ours to Warren Winiarski, who also just passed away. A little bit. He said ours is the accurate one. So if Warren Winiarski likes it, it must be good, huh?

Lisa: Nice. That’s awesome.

Priscilla: But, you know, and it’s because I just kept after a couple of people that, you know, needed to. To share. And I knew that they’re not, you know, it’s not all about them. So they’re not going to tell you something. Because we’ve had other people who come in with just, this is the way it was. And, you know, you can verify in a couple of conversations with people that, that’s not the way it was.

Lisa: That’s funny. Oh, yeah. That’s the other problem. Right. Sorting out made up history.

Priscilla: Yeah. And, with newspapers, too. I mean, because, you know. Well, now they’re. You don’t even. There are no newspapers now. There’s one person’s opinion and another one. It’s been an interesting endeavor, one of which we’re very proud of, in that these kind of results are, that people are reading them and appreciating them is, you know, it’s what, it was our mission was to preserve and communicate.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. Mission accomplished, I think was what you said when the papers were rescued, but now even more so. So. Well, I really appreciate you. Is there anything else you want to add in.

Priscilla: I just didn’t realize this stopped before we really had started the digitization project. I should probably revise it and add. Although, let’s see, JoAnn has put the new. The viewership numbers in our social media and maybe on the website. And, you know, that. I mean, I think that’s something to be proud of.

Lisa: Absolutely.

Priscilla: And verification, that we’re going in the right direction.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely.

Priscilla: Yeah. I don’t know what we would have done. I mean, we would have done the museum and other things. We just wouldn’t have the Tribunes.

Lisa: Right. You wouldn’t have the archive, the record.

Priscilla: And things in the museum wouldn’t be the same because we got the information from the Tribunes.

Lisa: Right, right. Well, thank you so much for that work, all of your work, and also just for spending time with me.

Priscilla: Oh, well thank you! This is exciting!

Lisa: It’s amazing to think that this entire archive of over 110 years of history would not have existed without the work of a group of volunteers (aka angels) assisted by some very well-timed luck.

You can browse the Palisade Tribune at historicpalisade.org – click on Newspapers in the menu at the top of the page. And make sure you have a lot of time to set aside, because you’re going to get sucked in! You can also join the Historical Society or make a donation on their website.

And if you don’t subscribe to the Historical Society newsletter already, you can sign up there! It’s a free monthly newsletter filled with stories about Palisade of the past and today. You can find that on their website as well – historicpalisade.org. And does anybody out there have any of those 1960s issues of the Tribune? Knowing that they’re missing makes me want to go on a serious hunt of all of the local antique stores.

The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend by Geoff Roper.

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.

Dan Bean and Nina Louden from the Palisade Insectary join me to talk about insects, weeds, what makes their jobs in biological control so fun and interesting, and why everyone in Palisade should care that the Insectary makes its home here.

Learn more about the Insectary on their website.

For more reading, check out an article Dan wrote for the Insectary’s 75th anniversary and a KUNC article about the Insectary’s 80th anniversary.

Subscribe:

Transcript:

Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade Podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara. Palisade is most famous for its peaches, but there’s so much more happening in our little town. Join me as I chat with our community members to hear about how they are making Palisade a great place to live and visit.

Today I’m speaking with Dan Bean and Nina Louden from the Palisade Insectary.

Dan Bean has been director of the Biological Pest Control Program for the Colorado Department of Agriculture since 2005. He manages the Palisade Insectary, headquarters of the Biological Pest Control program.

Biological control is a method of pest management that uses the natural enemies of weeds or pests. The Palisade Insectary – located just north of our little downtown – imports, raises, researches, and distributes biological controls for the state of Colorado. More than 90 insects and fungi have been studied and released for use since the Insectary was started in 1945.

Nina Louden is the project manager for the tamarisk, bindweed, and white top biological control programs.

Dan, Nina, and I chat about what the insectary does, what a day in their lives looks like, how their programs work, successful examples of biological control, and some less-serious stuff like what bugs gross them out and what kind of bug they’d be.

Before we get started: If you’re curious about the plants and insects that Dan and Nina mention during our conversation, pull up the Insectary’s website and follow along as we go! You can find photos and lots more information at: ag.colorado.gov/conservation/palisade-insectary

Join us to learn all about beneficial insects, on today’s Postcard from Palisade.

Dan Bean: I’m Dan Bean. I’m director of the Palisade Insectary. I’ve been here since 2005.

Lisa: Tell me a little bit about the Insectary. So what is it? Why is it here?

Dan Bean: It’s a biocontrol facility. The Palisade Insectary is. We raise, collect, distribute, biological controls, which are natural enemies of pests. And the pests can be insects or weeds. And the goal is to suppress them through the use of natural enemies that would normally be found in an ecosystem. Part of what we do is diminish the use of pesticides. Another part is provide farmers, ranchers, the ag community and everyone else with relatively cheap methods of control. In the ideal situation, these agents are self-propagating in the field, and so you don’t have to buy them every year. And it provides a way for farmers and ranchers, especially those that are living on the economic edge, to help solve their problems in an economic fashion.

Lisa: I recently had the opportunity to stop in and visit during the 80th anniversary, which is a huge milestone. And so one of the common questions that I heard people ask while I was touring, going on a tour with y’all was, how do you make the bugs? You know, where do the bugs come from? How do you grow them? How do you make them? And I had that same misperception originally too. I thought, oh, you grow the bugs. But I learned that’s not really how it works. So can you talk about, just where do the bugs come from?

Dan Bean: Our agents come from all over the world. And we do make them in a sense that once we get them, we have to learn how to use them. We have to raise them to a point where we have enough to get out into the environment, and then we have to figure out where they live in the environment, how we can go out and collect them for redistribution. So, we do make them in that sense. But there is a misconception that we grow everything that we release at the insectary, and that’s not practical. We release probably hundreds of thousands of insects and mites every. Well, probably more, way more than that. That’s an underestimate, millions. And it would be impractical to grow them all here. So we find out ways to collect them in the field. They originally, the ones from overseas, were discovered across the landscape of Eurasia mostly, and they were discovered by overseas scientists and they were discovered as natural enemies for the pests that we work against.

And that’s a good time to bring up that most of our pests are introduced species. They’re invasive, so they come from somewhere else. And this sets us up well to describe where we get our biocontrol agents, which is the land where the invasive species are native. So what we might think of as a terrible bush, let’s say a tamarisk, is actually a native, a lot like we would consider a willow. They consider tamarisk a native in Central Asia. So it really is a matter of where you’re from and what ecosystem you fit into, that really describes whether you’re a pest or a native species. So we get our agents from places where our pests are actually natives and where they have their own built in ecological controls. Which are what we use as biocontrols. So we’re just trying to re-establish the same relationship that a pest organism like a tamarisk tree has in its native environment between itself and all of the things that eat it. So we’re trying to establish a component of the ecosystem, here. And it’s not really, it’s not, it’s not magic. There’s no genetic engineering that goes on. We’re not doing something that’s out of the ordinary. We’re just taking a balance of nature that you find in the native lands of our invasive species and bringing it here.

Lisa: That sounds really simple, but what actually goes into your daily, what is your daily day in the life like?

Dan Bean: Our day in the life can be divided between a lot of different tasks, including taking care of and figuring out how to raise our biocontrol agents. And I said they come from other places, they don’t come with an instruction manual. So we have to learn how to raise them here. That’s the first step. And almost every agent that we have here took some time to learn how to rear them and make them happy in their new environment, happy enough to reproduce so that we could get them out and about in Colorado. So our one element of the day in the life is we grow the plants that our insects feed on. We raise the insects. We figure out what temperatures and light conditions and how to feed them the plants properly. We do it inside of the Palisade Insectary. We have a couple of greenhouses and we have chambers with controlled lights and temperatures that we do it in.

We raise the weeds that they feed on. So that’s part of it. Almost all of our biocontrol agents require something to feed on. And for example, we’re raising agents for yellow star thistle, which is a common and destructive weed across a lot of the West. We don’t have it here in great numbers and we don’t want it here in great numbers. But we have to raise those plants in order to feed the beetles that we want to get out as biocontrols. And a point to make about yellow star, while I’m on that topic, it’s a major weed in Utah these days. So our efforts are to collaborate and cooperate with Utah and with weed control managers there and make sure that they have the biocontrols that will suppress yellow star thistle in Utah so that it doesn’t end up coming here.

Lisa: Right, right. It doesn’t stop at the border.

Dan Bean: That’s part of what we do, is collaborate with other states. So raising the insects definitely part of our daily routine. Another part is what we’re doing right now, which is education. We have to let the general public and weed managers and everyone else who’s involved in pest control know about us and know what we do, because we do ask for support from the state, from the federal government, and from end users in various ways. And so we have to let them know: this is what we do. This is our, this is our operation. This is what we produce. This is what our goals are. This is how we can help the people of Colorado or the West. So education is critical. We do things such as this podcast, and we also do tours of the insectary, which I know you went on. You went on a tour when you came and visited for our 80th birthday. We do anywhere from 40 to 60 of those tours a year. So we’re often busy, especially in the off-season. That would be the wintertime, bringing people through and showing them what we do.

Another thing that has become really important in biological control, especially the last 25 years, is monitoring biocontrol after it’s been released into the environment. So that’s also part of what we do. We don’t do it right now because most of our biocontrols are dormant. They’re hiding out for the spring. But when spring comes, we ramp up our monitoring programs and go out in the field. And we have areas where we’ve released biocontrol. And in those areas, we measure the plants that they’re, if it’s a weed biocontrol, we measure the plants, their density, their size. We see if the biocontrol agents are there and doing their job. And we do that year in and year out so that we can eventually report back to weed managers how the biocontrol agent is doing, if it’s working or not. And even though we haven’t seen this, we do look for instances where maybe the biocontrol is feeding on something else. Maybe the tamarisk beetles are feeding on willows. So we check for that, too. And those are the three things we do is: get the biocontrol agents here, raise them at the insectary, monitor them, and do education about what we do here.

Lisa: So tell me about the different biocontrol projects you’re working on right now. Where are your main areas of focus?

Dan Bean: Our projects, I would say you could divide them into the new projects where we’re really still working under the roof or out in the garden of the insectary, and developing the agents, raising enough of them for release. And then the projects that, where they’re out in the field and they’re doing their thing, but we still have to go out and monitor. And then some of our long-term projects where we check in on them now and then, but the agents are already out in the field, they’re doing whatever they’re going to do and we make sure that they’re doing okay.

Some of the new projects include the yellow star thistle project that I talked about earlier. It’s a small black weevil that feeds on yellow star thistle. Yellow star thistle forms a rosette which is like sort of a starburst pattern of leaves in the spring down close to the ground. And then the weevils lay eggs on the leaves and then the eggs hatch and then the larvae, they follow along the stem, inside of the stem and into the main part of the plant where they take out the root and the root crown and damage the plant. So we’re working on that project. We’re raising yellow start thistle, we’re putting weevils on the stems, watching them crawl in, hoping to get enough of them coming back as adults to grow the population.

Another new project that we have is for a plant called white top, otherwise known as hoary cress. I think that it’s a plant that’s becoming much more of a nuisance in Mesa County. And it’s in the mustard family. In the springtime it blooms and you can see really nice white flowers all along the roadsides and in open spaces. Some, like me, are unlucky enough to actually have it in our yards. But we have an agent for it. And the person that is currently working on that project and getting those agents multiplied for use in the field is Nina Louden, who’s here with us today. And while I’m on the topic of Nina and others, we have people at the insectary who work on specific projects. So any project you can name like tamarisk, field bindweed mites, and white top mites would be, all of those would be under Nina’s direction. And all of our projects are under the direction of a project manager. So we divide it up. We do these projects through teamwork, but we make sure that we have a responsible individual for each one.

Lisa: So Nina, did you get to pick what projects you focus on? Do you have any special interest in these projects or how did you become the person?

Nina Louden: In the beginning of a project’s formation we definitely developed discuss with the director here, Dr. Dan Bean, and give him some idea that we have interest in that particular project, such as the tamarisk leaf beetles. For me, I did have interest in working with those as that was one of my job that I acquired while still earning my bachelor’s degree. I was able to work with Dr. Dan Bean and another important mentor, Dr. Tom Dudley. And they kind of impressed upon me the world of biocontrol. I wasn’t familiar with it as an undergraduate but I learned about biocontrol and saw it on the ground while working in Lovelock, Nevada. And so from that particular job, I was privy to working in biological control and I was able to come here as a seasonal for many, many years before earning a full job as a biological control technician.

So I did have interest in that particular project initially coming here. But beyond that, projects of course have changed through the years, but ultimately I had some knowledge of the bindweed mite collections while working with the previous project manager and enjoyed it, really enjoyed collecting them. It’s kind of somewhat of a little treasure hunt out on the ground which a lot of our projects tend to be that way. We are doing a lot of searching and you know communicating with other agencies too about weed infestations that we can access and collect these agents. So I had some training in that particular project before undertaking it as my project and to this day that’s a big one for us. Many people including one of our newer colleagues Ron Phillips and also Kyla Wells are really large help in that it really does take the insectary village to collect the thousands of mite releases that we’re currently needing to serve our long request list.

Lisa: Right. Yeah. Especially for bindweed because that’s a pretty big problem.

Nina Louden: Yeah, it’s basically ubiquitous with homeowning. Like if you, wherever you live you likely have it.

Lisa: Yep. And it’s really hard to get rid of. Really hard. It doesn’t really respond to anything. Including pulling it out.

Nina Louden: No. So this is, the bindweed mites are a really nice long-term control solution and granted they do take a large degree of patience to really see significant results. But if you’re willing to give them some time and kind of watch for them to progress then I think it’s a worthwhile strategy.

Lisa: I know that there’s a request a bug program is one of the services offered here. So who would be a good fit? Like what, what homeowner, what resident would be a good fit for requesting bugs? You know, maybe you don’t have one or two plants or like what’s the scale of the size of where that can be beneficial?

Nina Louden: Yes, we do like to give a good degree of information previous to someone requesting. So we definitely have a write up on the website per project, to explain what warrants release of a biocontrol and potential success. Because there are instances where they’re not going to really help. And so we do like to spread that information that, ultimately you need enough of that weed to warrant control rather than just eradication. If there’s a possibility you can eradicate that weed in your yard, we really recommend that first. But if you really can’t battle it to a level where it’s not prevalent, then I would recommend using biocontrols in that instance because that’s a nice tool to decrease the density and then you can attack it in other ways, too. So we are a tool in integrated pest management and we also recommend other strategies as well in a lot of cases. So, that’s something we like to mention too is like, okay, now that you have less bindweed, you can mow, per se, or with Russian knapweed and certain agents like okay, you could mow or maybe don’t water as much when you’re first establishing certain a biocontrol. So we definitely like to preface those requests with useful information for homeowners. And one other thing I would add is that we also ship really thorough instructions per agent so that people know more of what they’re getting into, how best to apply them, and what to expect.

Lisa: Sure. So it really is like a collaboration with a homeowner. You don’t just. You’re not just gonna send out a box of bugs and be like, good luck. Good luck.

Nina Louden: Yes, yes, completely. Because we wanna ensure the best means of them establishing and helping in the long run.

Lisa: Cool. What other projects are kind of the big ones that you all are working on right now? So you went over a couple new ones. Those are maybe more established programs, established agent.

Nina Louden: Well, the white top mites are very promising for us because we know there’s a huge deal of infestation of white top, or hoary crest, throughout our state. And so we really want to apply more of these mites across the state. And it’s taking some time, several years to get enough of a population here to spread them effectively. So we’re really pleased to report we were able to reach 18 locations last season to release, and that is opposed to just five releases in the year previous. So we’ve had exponential growth of the hoary crest mites, a specialist mite similar to the field bindweed mites. So in that respect, we’re hopeful that they’ll also have as much success. But it is still relatively early to know how much impact they’ll ultimately have. But we’re really hopeful to see more exponential growth and get to more sites and eventually have those sites become collectible as well. And then we can work more in coordination with those weed managers to distribute them in their counties and really spread wealth of mites.

Lisa: Yeah. So like any scientific endeavor, there’s a lot of patience involved and a lot of just persistence.

Dan Bean: Another project we have that’s at its fairly early stages is our Russian knapweed project. And we’ve released two agents that attack Russian knapweed. One of them hits the stem and causes it to swell up into a gall structure, and that one is a wasp. And the other one hits the growing shoot tips of Russian knapweed and causes them to stop growing and stop flowering, and that one is a fly. We started that project about 15 years ago. So I think that gives you a good notion of what we consider a recent project. In other words, it’s not very instantaneous. Like, 15 years later, we’re still learning more about those agents and getting them out to all corners of the state. But at this point, the project is well along. If you’re hiking around in Colorado National Monument, like I was was last summer, up in a drainage where I know no releases have ever been made, I saw some knapweed plants, Russian knapweed plants, that had the shoot tip galling flies.

So that’s what we hope for, so that they can get around on their own. We’ve given them their boost. And someday the mites Nina was talking about for white top, we hope to see them in places where we haven’t released them. They’re living organisms. They can move around in the environment. And eventually we set them off on their own, like sending your kids to college. It’s time. Time to go off and propagate and take care of yourselves. So the Russian knapweed project is at that point, they’re, they’re moving around the state on their own. We still release, we release 100,000 or more of the stem galling wasps every year still. But in most places, where we do our releases nearby at least, we find established wasps and established flies.

And then we have some much older projects like leafy spurge, where we’ve been releasing or the insectary has been this before my time. They were releasing them in the 1980s. We still have areas where we don’t have enough of them out in the field to do the job that we know they can do. And so we tune in occasionally and do some major releases around the state. This happens with some of our biocontrols, that once releases are made, the biocontrol agents will move, mostly they’re mobile. They’ll get out of an area and move to find new weeds to feed on. And then you might have to come back and do more releases or maybe ecological conditions have changed. So we do come in and fill in occasionally. And leafy spurge is a good example of that.

We have agents for yellow toad flax and dalmatian toad flax, which are really, really beautiful flowers. And they’re attractive enough so that you would want them in your garden. And they were probably used horticulturally. Well, I know that they were. But a lot of times our horticultural plants jump the fence and then are well suited for the ecological conditions in Colorado and the west and get out of control. And the toad flaxes are a good example of that.

There’s another, another one that lives that’s found in the high country. It’s called oxeye daisy. And I think people, a lot of people, have experience with Shasta daisies as an ornamental. Oxeye daisies are a close relative and they happen to find it very hospitable to live in the intermediate and high countries of Colorado. So there are places where you can go in the mountains and say, oh yeah, that’s a really beautiful white flower, but it’s actually out-competing the natives. And it’s oxeye daisy. We’re at a point now where we’re ready to receive biocontrols for oxeye daisies, so we’re gearing up for that one. The agents are coming along and probably are close to approval. So that’s another brand new one that escaped horticulturally.

Lisa: But it all started with peaches, right?

Dan Bean: It did.

Lisa: Way back 80 years ago, it was the peach that kind of got everything going. So that. But that’s still, Is there, I guess that would be a good point to say. Is there ever a point where you are done with one of these projects? Where you can wrap it up and the pest isn’t a problem anymore, or is it just ongoing?

Dan Bean: We do have projects that we finish. Going back to the peach moth or oriental fruit moth. We still release biocontrol agents for that organism. And the agents are wasps that are capable of stinging the larval stages of oriental fruit moth. And then their offspring develop inside of that, inside of that caterpillar and destroy it. At about the time it’s ready to pupate, they eat it from the inside out. But it’s, we’re sitting, right now we’re in the conference room of the Palisade Insectary and I can look outside and see the peach groves. Whenever we do a tour here, and we do a lot of them, I always look outside and force people to turn their heads and look at the peaches of the Grand Valley and I say that’s how we got started, with the peach pest.

And I always like to thank the farmers for being supportive of biocontrol, supportive of what we do at the Insectary. And it’s that long-term support from peach farmers and other agricultural producers that has allowed us to flourish. But peach farmers in particular, they were the first ones. And the Colorado Department of Agriculture in its current form didn’t start until 1949 and we started in 1945. So we weren’t placed here by the Department of Agriculture. We were more of like an organic grassroots organization. The Department of Agriculture incorporated us.

For a long time we were with the plants division because biocontrol and plant health are tightly linked. And then in 2007 we moved over to Conservation Services, thinking that we could really blend well with noxious weed management, which is also in Conservation Services. Actually we didn’t transfer to Conservation Services. Conservation Services were, that division was formed with biological control as one of the initial members of Conservation Services. We were part of the first four groups that started in Services, including noxious weeds. The person that founded Conservation Services thought that it would be a great idea to put noxious weeds and biocontrol together, were a good fit. So our history was really started with peach growers and then it expanded out to other end users in Colorado and eventually we’re in conservation services with a lot of other programs and projects that are involved with helping ag producers do their job in a way that’s environmentally sound.

Lisa: How did you get into this field originally? Did you just always really, were you always passionate about this or was it something you stumbled onto?

Dan Bean: I started with an interest in insect biology. And I started when I was probably early elementary school, maybe six or seven. I became interested in all aspects of biology. But I won’t say that I was, I wasn’t studying the literature. I wasn’t that kind of biology. It was going outside and catching things and watching them. I would capture caterpillars of all sizes, all kinds, and have them in my room and let them develop and emerge as whatever butterfly or moth they were going to emerge as. I liked ants. I was amazed at what they do. So I would try to dig up an ant colony, get the queen, because you need the queen if you’re going to have a reproductive individual. Try to capture the queen. And then I had different jars and things in my room with colonies and had different caterpillars and watched them emerge.

And then, later on in my career, after I got a degree in biology, undergraduate degree, and then tried to figure out what I was going to do. And I thought going to graduate school in a biological field would be a great idea. It was really interesting to me. So I looked at a number of programs and found several that really focused on insects. Entomology programs. Applied for graduate school, went to University of Wisconsin in entomology and studied, really focused once again on insects after starting out as a child in that field.

For entomology, most of what people were interested in at that point was controlling insects as pests. So, I worked for a scientist at University of Wisconsin who worked on European corn borer. And corn borer was a major pest in Wisconsin and a lot of the upper Midwest. It would attack plants and destroy them or weaken them. And there was a major effort to understand how to control the European corn borer, both through sprays but also through breeding programs that made corn more resistant to its attack. And my advisor, whose name was Stanley Beck, was one of the pioneers in developing corn strains that were more resistant to attack. So he was interested in the relationship between plants and insects. When I got to his laboratory, I learned about plant-insect interactions. And that was always on the back burner in my mind. But we also wanted to control corn borers, learn more about them, control them, develop methods to keep them from propagating that didn’t involve standard insecticides.

So we looked at hormones that could impact development, insect hormones. Insects have a set of hormones that are chemically very different from what we have. Similar in some distant ways, but definitely not something that we’d find in the human body. So the notion at the time was if we could develop sprays, pesticides that utilized insect hormones instead of the more general neurotoxins that we were spraying at the time, and still do, that it could be beneficial for human health, environmental health, and still kill the insects. So that’s how I got started, keeping insect-plant interactions in mind.

And then I had various jobs that involved either teaching or killing insects in various ways. And relatively late in my career, a friend of mine, a colleague of mine named Tom Dudley, contacted me. I was in North Carolina, I was teaching insect biology at the University of North Carolina, and contacted me and said, I have a project where we could use an insect physiologist, somebody that understands insect biology and insect-plant interactions. And that project was the tamarisk project. And at the time I was trying to decide how much, what I was going to do with my career. And I always tell people that careers, you know in the modern day, people change careers quite often, but at some point back in the day people would get into a career path and never change. So I was convinced after talking to my friend and colleague Tom, that there was a place for a trained insect physiologist to work in biocontrol. Biocontrol of weeds specifically.

So I left North Carolina. I moved to a USDA facility in California and started working at field sites, including a field site in Lovelock, Nevada, which is where I met Nina. And Tom Dudley was hiring people. That’s where, that’s how Nina got into the project. Hiring people to work over the summer out in the field on tamarisk biocontrol. And that was my first project too. So I always say with Nina, like our first project was the same in the same spot, which was biocontrol of tamarisk, using tamarisk beetles.

Lisa: Very cool.

Dan Bean: And eventually, this job opened up up in 2005. I saw it, applied for it and it expanded my range of projects greatly. Like, it wasn’t just tamarisk anymore. It was a whole array of projects, some on weeds, but also, we were still working on controlling the peach moth. We had other projects going on. And when you asked about, whether projects come and go or do we keep them all forever? We do have some forever projects, but we were also working on one to control the cereal leaf beetle. And I’m sure Nina remembers that one. It was a painful project because the biocontrols for cereal leaf beetle were tiny. There were parasites that hit the eggs of that beetle. So if you can imagine a wasp that was minute that could feed on the egg of a cereal leaf beetle, it was a difficult project logistically, just raising them here, getting them out in the field.

Lisa: Probably just knowing where they were.

Dan Bean: You had to have good eyesight. This is why it was great to have people that were younger. At that point I was already wearing bifocals, so it was difficult. And we shipped these tiny parasitic wasps called Anaphes Flavipes. we shipped them up to the Pacific Northwest where cereal leaf beetle was really getting out of control. And they established in the field. And within a few years, we dropped the project. They were already established up in Washington and Idaho and northern Oregon. So that’s a good example of a project that we held for, I think that project went about eight years. And then, once they were established, we stopped.

And we have several projects like that. Another one is against St. John’s Wort, which people might recognize as a medicinal plant. But it’s another one that was brought over, planted, and jumped the garden fence. And it actually got a different name in California and southern Oregon because of where it was becoming an invasive pest in the Klamath river basin. So it was called Klamath weed there. It got way out of control. They brought in a couple beetles that feed on it, coincidentally, at exactly the same time that the insectary was being founded in 1945-46. And they released beetles against St. John’s wort. And it became the first successful biological control of a weed.

But what is underappreciated is we had an outbreak of Klamath weed here in Colorado, at sites over on the Front Range and foothills. And in the 1950s, based on the great success they’d had in California, they released the Klamath weed beetles here. And it really brought the plant under control to the point that it never became the major invasive species that a lot of our weeds became. So that’s a good example of a project that was started and implemented by people at the Insectary and elsewhere back in the 50s and 60s and we don’t do it anymore.

Lisa: Yeah, that must just be hugely satisfying to see the results relatively quickly in the normal scale of things. I am curious Nina too, how you got into this. Were you also collecting bugs and jars had very wonderful parents.

Nina Louden: It’s really funny you say that because just earlier while Dan was speaking I was thinking of an incident in my mom’s garden as a child where she literally had a whole jar full of grasshoppers. She was acting as the biocontrol in that case. And I definitely recall releasing them back like oh, we must let these go and be free once more. Which probably hard on my mom. But I think from that point in time I just had a fondness kind of for most living things. So I guess as Dan mentioned, just kind of having interest and kind of curiosity of like, of interactions in nature and just wanting to be involved as an undergraduate in some way to like take part in hopefully some kind of conservation.

So my degree is in conservation biology and then I went back to school to earn a master’s degree in ecology with emphasis in entomology. So I do feel like those studies kind of helped to prepare me for applying those areas of knowledge to actually get on the ground and hopefully reduce pesticide application. That is one of our main goals. So in the cases where we can reduce herbicide and insecticide use, we are. And so I think to just keep working at that and know our place too. Maybe not in all settings it’s going to work out for people to use biocontrol of course, but in a lot of instances it’s really a long-term, really environmentally sound solution. And so in that respect I feel grateful that I get to work in this job and have that role in my life.

Lisa: So curious about both of your opinions on this one. But at this point, what do you feel like is the biggest threat to the ecosystem of the Grand Valley or what are you concerned about for the future, I guess?

Nina Louden: I mean for me, I guess I would say probably just insecticide, herbicide reduction for me. But I think introduction of other pests is also of concern in our role in regards to new invading pests. But, beyond that, I’m going to let Dan speak here.

Dan Bean: Well we are, as invasive species control group, in terms of problems that we can actually help with. I look at it through the invasive species lens and see what’s coming down the road. I mean, if you could step back beyond that, of course, it’s all about water in the west and water conservation, appropriate use of water. So I think that, that will be one of our largest environmental concerns is, where we go with water. But we can’t do anything about that at the insectary. So that’s something, you know, that’s a, that’s a worry that I can have like, away from work.

Even though, tamarisk reduction of tamarisk biomass results in the reduction of water use. And that has been, it’s been shown, through studies and measurements, measurements made in the field, that that’s so, that beetle defoliation causes a diminished evapotranspiration by tamarisk. And all of our weeds do transpire and all of our weeds do remove water from the soil and put it into the atmosphere. So, you know, I’m trying not to say that we have nothing to do with water use, but.

Lisa: It’s all related.

Dan Bean: Yeah, it’s, it’s interrelated, in a healthy ecosystem. In terms of what we have on the horizon in the Grand Valley for invasive species. We’ve talked about some that concern us. You know, I think, I think the mustard white top is certainly one that’s going to cause everybody trouble in the near future and distant future. Japanese beetle is one that’s highly concerning. We’re currently in an eradication mode and city of Grand Junction, the County, CSU Extension, I mean, everyone is pointed toward eradicating in the valley. I don’t know if that’s feasible at this point. They’re pretty widespread. But we give it the best shot that we possibly can because obviously what we want is a situation where we don’t have to worry about them.

And I will bring up that when I first came here, and Nina also, the town of Palisade was participating in an eradication effort along with CSU Extension and the Colorado Department of Agriculture, because we had an outbreak of Japanese beetle here in Palisade. And I think it’s very worthy of a lot of recognition and applause for what happened in Palisade. A lot of the homeowners participated, in fact, most did, in an effort to rid the town of Palisade of Japanese beetles and certainly got all the support from the peach growers in the area. It was really a team effort in a big way. CSU extension definitely helped out big time, did trapping and monitoring. Colorado Department of Agriculture participated. We provided a building for the central nervous system of that project. So I got to watch Japanese beetle go down all the way to zero in Palisade.

So that, that gave me a slightly different mindset. I felt it’s going to be so difficult to eradicate those. The infestation now, that’s centered more down in the Grand Junction area, is larger, more widespread geographically. So it’ll be a more difficult lift to eradicate them. They would be hard on the farming community here. Japanese beetle, it’s one of those insects that eats almost everything. And we do battle with those in the world of agriculture. And it’s why a lot of people look at what we do. The releasing insects that eat plants, just freaks people out. And it should, because people are used to those agricultural pests that don’t seem to have any barriers on going from one item to the next. And Japanese beetle feeds on several hundred different plants.

As a note, all the agents that we bring in here are specialists. And it’s a different, a different lifestyle, as you might say, for an insect to be a specialist versus a generalist that eats everything. So we try to, we try to let people know that we’re not, we’re not releasing something like a Japanese beetle or one of our recent projects is on corn earworm, which has become a major problem in the Olathe area. Olathe has thousands of acres in sweet corn worth millions of dollars. And there’s an insect that has become resistant to pesticides. It’s called the corn earworm. And right now it causes enough damage that if an Olathe sweet corn grower ships their crop up to City Market, they’ll peel back a few ears. And if they get over 10%, I think it’s 5% to 10%, with an earworm, they reject the whole batch. So obviously a major economic impact if that agent gets out of control. And it eats a lot of different plants. So we’re looking for a biocontrol for that.

It’s a great example of how what I say now, like, Japanese beetle and corn ear worm are bad, and we have to keep an eye out for them. But as much, as much as we’re looking at the knowns, we also have to look at the unknowns. We don’t know what invasive species will be next or how it will impact agriculture or how it’ll impact open space and native natural ecosystems. Because we’re not only tuned in to the agricultural community, but also to our natural native ecosystems. And we want to keep them intact as much as possible. And in that regard something like tamarisk will definitely impact, negatively impact an ecosystem, but we don’t know what else is out there and what might come in next and be a problem. So there are some big question marks there also.

Lisa: Just a couple lighter questions now. So I know bugs are a really big part of your day and I like how you respectfully call them agents and it kind of gives them a little bit more of a coworker type role. Are there any insects though that just totally gross you out, that you just can’t stand? Because they are around! When you walk into the Insectary, you should know there are going to be insects here. But just personally, is there any bug that you just dislike?

Nina Louden: That’s a really good question for asking, like bug nerds, because, I think I’ve never had to really think about that. I’ve never had an. I can’t think of an insect that like just outright creeps me out. But I’m deathly afraid of snakes, so that’s a little different. But I really respect them and I think that we need to definitely educate our young people that there are a lot of beneficial insects. So even if they do give you the creeps, which I understand in some instances, but that there’s such an array out there of insects that are helping us so much. So even if you feel a little creeped out, like, they’re probably doing an important job. But in that respect, if I see a snake, I’m going to be jumpy and probably run away. But I still respect them.

Lisa: I love that.

Dan Bean: I can’t think of any that creep me out. There are some that I really don’t like seeing around. One of them is a recent invader, the elm seed bug. And that has not as much creeped me out as grossed me out. Because we have, one of our neighbors has an elm tree and man, we get tens of thousands of them in the house.

Lisa: I also see, yeah, yeah, they’re not that gross. But you’re just like, where are you coming from?

Dan Bean: Where are you coming from. What can we do about you? And they would. Sometimes they crawl on the ceiling, they drop on your bed. I mean, nobody likes that. They’re, they’re disturbing. I’m also not a big fan of bedbugs. I’ve seen them. I’ve never been bitten by one so far, knock on wood. But, I’ve seen them, I’ve seen them in action. And nobody, nobody wants those. In fact, most of the bloodsucking insects I’m not, not too thrilled by. And it’s not really. I know they’re just doing what they do, but nobody wants to get West Nile or dengue or malaria. Nobody wants. And getting a little bit out of the insect realm and into ticks. That’s where I was going with this.

Lisa: You’re making me itchy!

Dan Bean: Well, I’m not, I can’t think of any insects that truly gross me out. Even mosquitoes. I don’t mind them, but I’m going to say ticks do. They’re not an insect, they’re an arthropod. They’re a relative, close enough. But I really don’t like them. And I don’t like them because they carry such an array of diseases, some that we haven’t even discovered yet, I’m sure. And every time they talk about, oh yeah, well, this new Rickettsial disease has been discovered in ticks that we didn’t know about before. And it’s called some fever or another.

And then I had a friend, a colleague who was a graduate student in North Carolina who ended up getting Rocky Mountain spotted fever in North Carolina. Even though it’s called Rocky Mountain spotted fever, it’s pretty dominant other places in the country. The medical profession didn’t realize what he had. And even though it’s treatable with antibiotics, he ended up coming close to death before they caught on and treated him. So ticks gross me out. I don’t like seeing, I don’t like being bitten by them. I avoid it. I do tick checks on a routine basis and definitely do not want to be bitten by one.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, that’s fair. That’s a really good one. Nina’s agreeing. Something with basically no beneficial use whatsoever. Right. It’s just harmful. So on the flip side of that, if you were to be a bug, if you were to be an insect, what insect would you be?

Dan Bean: Well, I’ll start. I would be a dragonfly. And I choose that one. There are a few others that would be wonderful to try out. First of all, none of them have a long lifespan. So, you choose to be an insect, you have to realize every day is precious! But dragonflies, in both their larval and adult forms, their nymphal forms, are amazing predators. In the adult form, they have outstanding vision, they can see things that I think, I think if you could see through the eyes of a dragonfly, you’d see a different world. For one thing, they can see in almost all directions, they can move their head in almost all directions. And they can interact not only with their prey items, which they catch in midair, which means they have to have not only great eyesight, but extreme maneuverability in the air. But I’ve seen them in these congregations with each other where they’re in the same airspace. They know where all their neighbors are. And when an insect, a prey item, a mosquito would be one that they would feed on, comes into vision, one of them will peel off and snag it. So they know where they all are flying and basically in formation. They’re strong, strong fliers, highly maneuverable. Most flying insects have four wings and most of them have a lot of coordination with or their front pair of wings and back pair of wings are actually hooked to each other. Dragonflies have a lot of maneuverability in that respect and they can control all four wings. So they can stop on a dime, turn, run around. I think they’re really beautiful creatures anyway, so dragonfly is my choice.

Lisa: I love it.

Nina Louden: I have to say I’m really fond of the golden tortoise beetles. And if you, I have a photo brought up.

Lisa: Oh, they’re gorgeous.

Nina Louden: So if you haven’t seen these before, it’s definitely worth searching.

Lisa: Like a piece of jewelry.

Nina Louden: Yes. They’re astoundingly golden, iridescent golden. And they have a strange, like clear shell stamped over. And so, they’re really astonishing to me. And sometimes we collect them when we collect our musk thistle weevils. So I’m privileged to get to see them in real life. And so on that note, I think I would choose that beetle. That particular beetle. Yeah, I love it.

Lisa: Just because it’s so beautiful and unique?

Nina Louden: Yeah, they’re so unique and I’m fond of beetles for sure.

Lisa: This just seems like a really fun place to work. So it seems like you all have a really good time kind of in your daily job. So I really appreciate that about you all too. So how can the people of Palisade, how can the residents here, like, how can they support the insectary and, you know, learn more about it if they want to?

Dan Bean: We do have tours of the insectary.

Lisa: So say if somebody had family visiting from out of town, could they just call up and schedule a tour? Is it that informal?

Dan Bean: It depends on the time of year. We do really restrict tours starting, let’s say about mid-April. Definitely May, June, July, and August are big, big months for us in terms of, we spend a lot of time in the field. We’re packaging up stuff. This place is very different looking than it looks right now, with people scurrying around, going out in the field, packaging up bindweed mites, shipping. So I would avoid that time. But in the winter, you can stop by and have a look. I would call ahead of time, call the Palisade Insectary, our person at the front desk, Sam Morgan, is very, very good about talking to people, arranging tours, making sure that we can accommodate the public as much as possible.

In terms of support, we are supported by the state of Colorado and also by the end users. Most of what we ship out has a shipping fee. So some of our support comes from end users paying the shipping fee. And then we also get grants funded through the USDA and other agencies. In other words, people in Palisade are already supporting us by being Colorado citizens, because that’s really our roots are in Colorado, and those roots are concentrated right in Palisade.

There has been talk about, it’s been brought up a few times since I’ve been here, well, why don’t we have all of our Colorado Department of Ag facilities in Broomfield, which is where our main office is? And it’s always been a strong No. Like, we want to be out here. This is our. This is where we started, and this is where we want to stay. And I think it’s helpful for the Colorado Department of Ag to have, to have one of its main, like, I guess part of the central nervous system out here. So Palisade supports us by being our home. That’s kind of a funny way to put it, but it is. This is where we are. Also, it’s worth noting that we lease this land that the insectary is on, from the town of Palisade, for the whopping amount of $1 per year. So Palisade has been a really good landlord to us.

Lisa: I think the town values having this here as well.

Dan Bean: So it’s. We benefit from being here. And we feel like we get a lot out of the Town of Palisade. What we wish and hope is that people that live in Palisade who are interested in town life and what’s going on in the area realize that we’re here. A lot of times, not a lot of times, almost all the time, people that I encounter people that are even from town and I tell them what we do and where we are, they say, oh, I didn’t know that. So we try to get the word out to, starting in Palisade, and then in the Grand Valley in general, that we’re here. And that’s built right into our strategic plan, our mission and such. Is that to let people know that we exist.

Lisa: Yeah. And that’s an ongoing thing. Right. So, is there anything that I missed that you definitely want to include or share with any listeners? Anything I didn’t ask?

Dan Bean: I will say that there are a couple of biocontrol agents coming down the line. And I know I mentioned oxeye Daisy, but there’s always an interest in like, do you have a biocontrol agent for Kochia? That’s one of the ones that people always ask about. And the answer is, sadly we don’t. And there are none in development that I know of. They ask, do you have a biocontrol agent for Cheatgrass? And happily, there’s a project going to develop biocontrol agents for Cheatgrass, so you can check that one off as hopeful. A couple of others are Russian Olive, which is a major invader of riparian areas. And we do have a biocontrol agent coming down the line for that. It’s not approved yet for release. This might be a good time to say that in terms of biocontrol safety, there are safety tests go on for about 10 years. So an agent like the mite that attacks Russian olive is still in the safety zone of tests and it’s passed all the, jumped all the hurdles quite well.

Lisa: And this is to make sure you’re not inviting something like a Japanese beetle that’s just going to eat everything in addition to what you want it to eat.

Dan Bean: Right. We’re very safety focused. And yes, as you said, Japanese beetle is a generalist. It eats everything. We want specialists that don’t have any taste for anything else. And the mite for Russian olive is one of those. And then there’s another agent for a plant that’s not as well known right here. It’s called hounds’ tongue, but it’s coming down, that’s coming down the line. It’s more right up. I’m looking out the window back up to the Book Cliffs. There’s a lot of hounds’ tongue up there. It’s spread because it sticks to the coats of livestock, pets, wildlife. The seeds are like Velcro. They stick to almost everything and anything. And it can really take over an area. It’s called hounds’ tongue, I think, because the leaves look like a tongue. I don’t think so really, but I guess somebody with a better imagination thought that. But it’s taking over a lot of the rangelands that are actually pretty nearby. So we do have agents coming down the line. And they’re all. It’s all about safety when to it comes to evaluating. So they’re all in that process of being tested. But we do have. We do have agents that are promising for some of our other weeds.

Lisa: So lots to come in the future.

Dan Bean: Yes, it’s an ongoing, it’s a process.

Lisa: Yeah. Well, I appreciate both of your time so much. Really. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me and it’s so interesting to learn about. And I’m excited to share it with the people of Palisade too, to hear more. So thank you so much.

Dan Bean: Well, thanks. Thank you for coming. As I said during the parts of the talk, various spots, education is important. So your coming here and recording this is, it’s actually helping us do our job. It’s not taking time out from our job. It’s actually,

Lisa: Oh, good distinction.

Dan Bean: It’s another, you know, it’s another segment of our job. So we really depend on, we depend heavily on the media to get the word out on who we are and what we do. I mean, you know, getting, getting something online exposes us to a much larger audience than we could ever get, like touring the insectary. And we do tour a lot of people, but we rely on the media to get information out. So, thank you for coming and interviewing us.

Lisa: Well, I’m thrilled to help.

Lisa: The next time you are looking for something to do on a cold day, consider a visit to the Palisade Insectary. Tours are available between September and March. They can accommodate a maximum of 20 people but also do tours for individual families or smaller groups. Call to arrange a tour at 970-464-7916, ext. 0. You can find the Insectary online at ag.colorado.gov/conservation/palisade-insectary. The building is located at 750 37 8/10 Road, just north of downtown Palisade.

The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend by Geoff Roper.

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.

Cody Butters Lewis and her husband Mike are the new operators and co-owners of Peach Street Distillers, along with new co-owners Jesse and Desa Loughman.

Cody shares their plans for the distillery and how they will strike a balance between thoughtfully honoring its legacy as the first distillery in Colorado while moving into the future.

As Cody says: “We all remember and love what the distillery was…we’re striving to be that place for Palisade again.”

Find more at peachstreetdistillers.com and visit them at 144 South Kluge Avenue in Palisade!

 

   

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Transcript:

Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade Podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara. Palisade is most famous for its peaches, but there’s so much more happening in our little town. Join me as I chat with our community members to hear about how they are making Palisade a great place to live and visit.

Today I’m speaking with Cody Butters Lewis. Cody and her husband Mike are the new operators and co-owners of Peach Street Distillers, along with new co-owners Jesse and Desa Loughman.

Cody shares their plans for the distillery – from the menu to the service model, spirits and drinks, and the physical changes that have turned the corner of Peach and Kluge Avenues to a busy hive of activity over the past few weeks.

We also talk about the difficulty of striking a balance between thoughtfully honoring Peach Street Distillers’ legacy as the first distillery in Colorado while moving towards the future, and how they are planning to welcome locals back through the doors.

Also, Cody totally schools me on Amaro.

All that and more on today’s Postcard from Palisade.

Lisa: So, Cody, welcome back to the podcast.

Cody: Thank you so much. Happy to be here.

Lisa: So the last time we talked, it was 2023, and we were talking about your last big project, the homestead. And, you were kind of right in the midst of it, renovating that six room motel and your house. And you would had finished it, I guess, right?

Cody: Yeah. Because we were in our kitchen, and it, you know, looked like a kitchen, I think at that time.

Lisa: It did, it did. It was gorgeous. So now you have a new giant project. So what happened? Like, did you get bored or what?

Cody: Yeah, man, I just really like a challenge. No, we were so excited to do the homestead, you know, a couple years ago, and I had that vision in my head for ever, for over 10 years. And, you know, we were fortunate enough to be able to pull the funds together and do that. And then, you know, going into our third summer, we’ve learned a lot. We got it, we got it going. And the support of our community has been just truly amazing. And thank you to all you guys, truly, because we can’t do this without each other. But the opportunity came up, you know, the distillery went up for sale last October, and I had heard that through the grapevine, and I was like, that’s lovely for whoever can afford a price tag like that. And, you know, it came into conversation with our friends and, you know, they have the property behind here and they were interested in purchasing this for a real estate side. But, you know, their background is not in distilling or a restaurant or front of the house. But they’re amazing business owners. Jesse called me and he was like, hey, what do you think about the distillery being for sale? And I was like, I think I can’t afford it. And he said, well, let’s talk about it. So, you know, a few dinner meetings and sitting again in our kitchen, we decided to go for it. So, as a team. Yeah. So, after, again, many, many conversations, you know, I even called, called the prior owner, Bill, and was like, hey, man, what’s going on over there? You know? So, there’s a lot of fortune in being from Palisade and knowing all these people and having all these conversations and this big, beautiful network, that’s led us to this spot. And, you know, Mike and I are super excited to take the business side of this long time, staple of 20 plus years now, to the next level. Bring our community back in. We can’t wait to invite all of our friends, our family, our locals, our other business owners. We just want to be a very, integral part of everyday life for the people that live here in Palisade.

Lisa: I love it. I love it. Yeah. I mean, I’m joking, but in seriousness, I really can’t imagine better people to run this, like, with your background in the beverage and hospitality industry. And also just your warm personality and your energy and like, the do it yourself skills, like, I honestly cannot imagine any anybody better equipped to take this on.

Cody: You are so sweet. Thank you so much. It means a lot to me. And I’m telling you, it’s, it’s definitely not just me. My husband Mike, and then Jesse and Desa are just as much, gonna fuel this fire, as much as myself. But, you know, I’ve been telling my staff and everybody here that this is my last job. Okay? So I no longer work for Jägermeister. I just, you know, I’m gonna be here, slinging the Peach Street Distillery goods and like I said, building that, that long term staple for Palisade.

Lisa: Yeah, it’s a big project, though. So were you at all intimidated to take it on?

Cody: Oh my heavens, yes. Like, this is homestead times 5,000. You know, it’s a really big business. We actually have, you know, 40 employees, which is a lot. I’ve never, you know, had employees like that before. I’ve never had to figure out liability insurance, like unemployment insurance. There’s so much insurance. No offense to the insurance. Happy for the insurance. And then, you know, we have the wholesale business, the restaurant, the whole thing there, like I’m all about the front of the house, but the back of the house has been something that, you know, we’re really trying to figure out and tackle. It’s like we have a pretty good product, but our processes were really broken. You know, we want to have good, Mike calls them vittels, but snacks, you know, and good food, good rib sticking grub. So you can have maybe one or two, old fashioneds, and be okay, you know, and enjoy your time with your friends. So we’re really trying to figure out these pieces of the puzzle and redo the puzzle. Right. We gotta put it together the right way.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. I’m sure it’s not a surprise to you that a lot of locals were maybe, the previous incarnation kind of had driven some locals away, including me, to be totally honest with you. And I just live around the corner, so I would absolutely love to come back, but, you know, just had so many bad experiences.

Cody: I know. That breaks my heart.

Lisa: I mean, you’re walking into that. So that’s a weight. So what are you planning to do to welcome locals back in?

Cody: So just to back up a little bit on that weight? Yeah, that’s definitely what keeps Mike and I up at night is, you know, with the homestead, we got to start fresh, right? It was a clean slate. It was something that we started from the very beginning, you know, for Jesse and Desa with the Weedery. You know, that was a clean slate from the very beginning. You know, you get to shape it and form it. You own your own mistakes. You know, you own your own trials and tribulations. At this place you know, we inherited all of that, right? And when I go online and I see the negative reviews and everything, it just. It just is very crushing, if I’m gonna be honest, because, you know, there’s nothing I can do about it. But it also doesn’t have anything to do with our current, you know, plan of attack here.

Lisa: Right. That’s past.

Cody: But as far as bringing. Yeah, as far as bringing the locals back, you know, we all remember and love what the distillery was, right? And we love the people that work here. And it’s honestly where we all met, which is really cool. Right? That’s where me and, Jesse and Desa met, over 20 years ago. Isn’t that crazy? Or about 20 years ago. And so. And why did we come here? Right? It was fun. It was vibrant. It was just a super cool place to hang out. Really laid back so those are the things that we want to bring back to the front of the house. Now we can’t, you know, going backwards is not progressing. So we want to bring back some of the authenticity and those really tried and true things that we love about the distillery. But we also want to grow and move forward. So we installed a couple of TVs, right? So. I know, right? So we’d like to, like, have some Bronco games and Avs and, like, support our, state sports and all that good stuff. We want to maybe do some trivia nights. Right? We want to do, you know, support your local book club. Maybe we’ll do some bunco this winter. I don’t know. Right. we definitely want to increase our farm to table offerings out of the kitchen. We want to incorporate our spirits more with our food. This was all really good advice from our head distiller, Davy this morning at our managers meeting. So, you know, it’s about not just the people, but also the who we are as Palisade. Right? Like, let’s support each other. Right? And I will continue to go get my pickle shots over at Clark and Co. Just like, you know, it’s so good.

Lisa: It’s intense. I got like goose bumps when you said that.

Cody: Well, it is a little early. But you know what I mean, like, one team, one dream. As far as Palisade goes, that I’ve always felt that way. I’m from here, born and raised. Any local is welcome always. Like, always. We do offer a locals discount, too, to anybody that comes in. We’re gonna do some really cool local specials. We’re tossing around some cool marketing ideas. You know, maybe we do something called the local pour, you know, through the week. You know, maybe we bring in a shelf full of games and stuff so we have somewhere to go. And it’s when we’re all being hermits in the winter. Right. But we can come in, grab a cocktail, play some card games with a friend.

Lisa: Yeah. Honestly, I think that’s what’s missing in Palisade is that kind of cozy place where you can hang out, get a really good cocktail, hang out with your friends, and just, like, have a nice evening. So I feel like we’re starving for something like that.

Cody: All right. Well let me check that box. Let me do that. And, I’m. You know, we’re open to the feedback, too. You know, I’m happy to hear from especially my neighbor here that you live right next door, you know, but anybody like, you know, just talk to Mike and I and Jesse and Desa. And we’re here to listen, and we’re really looking forward to having all our familiar faces back in here.

Lisa: I love it. Well, I’m excited.

Cody: Me too.

Lisa: As Cody referred to earlier in our conversation, her last job was as a National Account Manager for Jägermeister. I asked her if there was any chance we might see something like Jager popping up on the menu in the near future.

Cody: That’s a good question. So, I was with Jägermeister and Teremana Tequila for only about three and a half years.

Lisa: I mean, honestly, that’s a long time in this current world. I mean for me.

Cody: Is it long or. I mean, I did Coors in one way or another for almost 17 years. And we do have Coors products in the building as we speak. So to answer your question. But we have to have beer. You know, we want to have the things that people want. And sometimes you want a beer with your bourbon, you know, or you want to have, you know, a Bloody Mary, and then maybe you cut back to beer or beer as a conservative choice, you know what I’m saying? So, we want to offer the things that people want. As far as other spirits, no, we are still strictly Peach Street Distillers pride and true. Only our spirits behind the bar. Will that change? Maybe. You know, we’re all about creativity and being flexible over here and, like I said, giving the people what they want. So if we got to do an Aperol spritz, we might have to do some Aperol. Unless Davy whips up some Aperol for me. I don’t know.

Lisa: That’s right. Well, yeah, that’s. That’s kind of where the direction I was going was. Like, would you ever consider making something like a liqueur or some sort of spirit along those lines?

Cody: We actually have one. Yes. It’s our Amaro.

Lisa: Oh I love the Amaro! Yeah, but I’m not thinking about that as being…

Cody: Jeagermeister? So Jaegermeister is technically an Amaro in the way that it’s made. Yes.

Lisa: I never knew that.

Cody: I know. Nobody does. They just think of college and Jaeger bombs. But, no, it’s technically an Amaro or a German liquer. It’s in the same family, so. Yeah, our Amaro is very similar to that.

Lisa: Oh, that’s fascinating. Okay, well, I actually really like the Amaro.

Cody: And the Aamro is amazing.

Lisa: and the cocktail you do with it here.

Cody: We are actually testing two more right now. So we’re gonna have some more of those come on the menu for the fall and wintertime.

Lisa: Good. I’m glad that’s not going away. No, I don’t know it seems like something that’s a little bit of a niche thing that maybe is not as it is widely known, but it should be.

Cody: Yeah, it is. I think we’re, you know, do we need to do a little bit of SKU rationalizing here? Yes. But we’re trying to do that tactfully and smart and make sure that we’re, you know, keeping the things that people want. But.

Lisa: Right.

Cody: still making good business decisions.

Lisa: Yeah. How do you decide what stays and what goes?

Cody: Well, you know, obviously sales matters and what’s moving and what we use it for. So I would say those are the main contributors to that decision process.

Lisa: Yeah, that makes sense. So for the distillery. I’ve always felt like the distillery tour was one of the most under known, underrated things to do in Palisade. Like it’s a really cool thing, but I feel like it’s not maybe something that comes up on the top of everybody’s search. So are you planning to emphasize that part of the experience here more or are you trying to kind of build up the fact that, hey, you’re visiting Colorado’s oldest locally owned distillery. Let’s check out how we do things.

Cody: Absolutely. Actually, I love that you just said that because I didn’t realize that Peach Street was the first craft distiller in Colorado. The first one, we have liquor license, distilling license number one.

Lisa: That’s pretty cool.

Cody: That’s an amazing story. Like before Stranahan’s you, know what I mean? Before Leopold’s, before these really big brands. Here we are in little Palisade, you know, back in the day, drinking our Bloody Marys and I mean it was just awesome. I just think it’s the coolest story. So we are leaning into our first, like fundamental, pillar for who we are going forward, is we are a distillery first. First. First and foremost, we’re not a restaurant. We are distillery first. So too long, long way answer your question. Yes. We want to lean into our tours. Our online presence is going to change. We want people to know that they can come and see a really cool craft distillery that uses all, you know, primarily, I shouldn’t say all local, ingredients, like as best we can. Right. The Amaro is actually the one tricky one that we have to get some stuff from other places. But you know, we use, right now we’re reusing some pear puree because we didn’t have the right stuff to destone our own fruit for the pear gin. And we got creative and we’re working on that right now. And it comes right out of, the Colorado Juice Company. So we’re doing everything we can as close to home as possible and we want to continue to tell that story in our tours. We did just change our service model here at the distillery too, so we’re going back to ordering everything through the bar. Yeah. And we’re gonna test it this weekend and see how we do, and kind of shift our table service more to an expo. Can you still get a drink at your table? Absolutely. we’re going to have kind of a fluid way of doing things, and make sure that we’re just, you know, creating the best experience for the guest. But when you walk into the distillery, there’s going to be somebody right there at the front offering you a sample of one of our fine crafted spirits. A flight. Would you like the, you know, nickel tour or do you want to sign up for a proper tour at a later date or whatever it may be and really promote our identity and who we are as Peach Street Distillers.

Lisa: Yeah. Well, that’s exciting. Very exciting. So you mentioned the locally sourced ingredients and you know, I can see from my window, like farmers drive up with vats of juice and drop them off, you know, on a regular basis, which is so cool. So where do you get things from locally? Like what ingredients do you source locally and how does that all work?

Cody: So we work with a lot of the local farmers and other, you know, wineries and everything. We just did something with, Big Bs and some of their cider with them. So, you know, without trying to, like, single anybody out, we really work with a lot of. We work with everybody local. So, and we’re you know, we need each other, like I said, you know what I mean? Until I buy my big orchard. No, just kidding.

Lisa: No, this is your last job.

Cody: Sorry, it’s my last job. I forgot. No, we need each other. So we work with, you know, a ton of local people here.

Lisa: Yeah, that’s very cool. And so we’ve also talked about how this distillery has a really long history and you’re kind of coming into that history. So have you thought about how you kind of honor that past while also bringing in new things that you as you well-acknowledge are needed and are important? Like how do you still make sure that that history and that continuity is here?

Cody: So that’s a tough line to toe. Right. But I’m hypersensitive to it because I actually really honor the roots of this place and where it came from. I really, truly do, because I was here, you know, 20 years younger, hanging out and having a blast. And I really applaud the distillery and the brewery for being, you know, some of our first really progressive businesses as, you know, I used to say that, you know, back in the day when I was on town board. So, and I thought it was really cool because it was kind of pushed us into a different direction of maybe we can have some fun and, like, have some live music and a cool spot to, like, hang out and. And now we have this whole total package with our cool stores downtown, you know, and our amazing restaurants that we have. And then our wineries all have their own personality. And I just think that this was kind of the beginning. So I definitely don’t want to do anything to erase the past. Right. But I want to build on top of it. So. Yes. Like, what. What the prior owners did to bring this to life. Super cool. You know, and it’s where we are. This is the last time we’re gonna be right here. We’re only going up from here. So. Yeah, you can’t forget. You can’t forget the past. Just to, you know, push forward into the future.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. And I. Speaking of which, as the train goes by. This building is so cool that we’re sitting in. We’ll pause for a minute. Lovely. Gotta leave that in.

Cody: Yeah, I know. I kind. I kind of want to do, like, a whistle stop special or something when the train goes by. Like, have something. Wouldn’t that be fun?

Lisa: That’d be a lot. You’re like oh I got another one.

Cody: I know. Whip out some, like, mini cocktails or something. I don’t know.

Lisa: That’s a great idea.

Cody: I’m still brainstorming. Right. But like a whistle stop shot. I don’t know. But the train is cool, man. The train is super cool. It’s part of our identity, too. but, yeah, this building is super cool. This is the original train depot. Like, this window that’s, you know, between Davy and I’s desks is, where they used to sell the tickets. It’s just neat. I like it. This. I like this building a lot.

Lisa: Yeah, I love it. I’m honestly excited to be in here because I’ve always wanted to check it out.

Cody: You can come hang out anytime.

Lisa: It’s as cool as I thought it would be. So you’ve made a lot of changes physically to the property. tell me a little bit about those and where you’re going and what you still have left to do.

Cody: Yeah, sure. So, you know, Jesse and Desa own the real estate. And, we’re so fortunate to have them as partners because they got in here and they were like, man, we gotta, like, get this place up to snuff. Right? But Mike and I have been, you know, very much part of the process with some, you know, input as far as, like, paint colors and all that good stuff. But we wanted to bring, you know, the depot building, the office building, you know, back to kind of its original look. And once it’s done, you guys are all gonna see it’s going to look really beautiful. And then that bright red, stop sign, red over there on production. Let’s call some attention to this corner, right? Let’s not be drab anymore. And when that’s finished, you guys will see the full, concept and what we’re going for. It’s going to be rooted in the history of Palisade. These buildings are old. This was the co-op, you know, and so we’re gonna bring that back a little bit. And then the tasting room is really going to be beautiful soon on the outside as well. The inside will probably take a little bit because we got to recoup some funds. But, you know we’re just gonna continue to refresh. We’ll clean clean, clean and refresh. As the time goes on and we move into slow season, we’ll probably have a little clearer vision for that. But, in the meantime, just keep watching. It’s going to come out beautifully.

Lisa: Yeah, it’s definitely looking cleaned up, like, cleaned up all the vegetation and everything that was really getting overgrown in some of the wild areas, especially around the production building. It looks great.

Cody: You mean the tree growing out of the wall?

Lisa: Yeah. I’d always have to duck walking home underneath that tree. So it looks, I mean, I love these trees. They’re absolutely gorgeous. But they needed to be cleaned up. It’s looking really fresh and beautiful.

Cody: Thank you so much.

Lisa: So, and yeah, I noticed the new tables inside are gorgeous. Like, nice kind of granite tops and new chairs. And so it definitely is feeling fresh.

Cody: Thank you.

Lisa: So back in, probably a couple years ago, the previous owners had gone through this whole process to get design approval to build a kitchen and a kind of a takeout area. Do you still foresee that kind of going anywhere in the future or is that just like a way, long term plan?

Cody: The short answer is yes. We won’t be using those plans, per se. But we’ve already been, you know, vision boarding, if you will, on what we’re going to do. But I would say that’s like a three to five year plan, you know.

Lisa: It’s a giant project building a commercial kitchen. It’s enormous.

Cody: It is. And you know, we’re working on getting our team, together here right now as far as our management team. And we’ve made some big progress this week. And, you know, that was part of our pitch for long term was, you know, we want to have a proper kitchen. The trolley’s the. trolley. Some people love the trolley. I struggle with the trolley.

Lisa: The trolley being where it’s like the food truck currently.

Cody: Yeah, it’s a trolley.

Lisa: It’s a food trolley.

Cody: It is a. It’s something, anyways. But yeah, I do, to have just a proper kitchen where we can, you know, have, you know, own some tasty dishes, like I said, some shareables, something that’s rib sticking delicious, you know, so you stay and enjoy your craft cocktail or two.

Lisa: That’s really exciting. Yeah. And I can see how that’s just a huge. Another kind of huge thing to bite off.

Cody: It is, but it’s all about like the progression. Right. So, you know, we’re starting here, we’re cleaning up, we’re getting the staff the things that they need. We’re hiring some more people to help us with the stuff that we need help with. You know, we’re building something, you know, and you have to build something from the ground up. You know, even if you inherit a business, you know, you inherit all the things with it. Right. And we’re doing some major unraveling, has been my term of choice. And then we are, we’re going to rewire and restructure and where we are today is going to look a lot different from where we are, you know, three, five, seven, ten years from now.

Lisa: I’m excited. What are you most excited about for seven to ten years from now?

Cody: That I get to live and exist in Palisade and, to amazing businesses and work with people that I love and care about and make it to my kids soccer games and, you know, be home for dinner and. And, you know, get, the juice that I squeeze is mine. So it’s not. I’m not doing it for anybody else anymore. I’m doing it for myself and my family.

Lisa: I like that a lot.

Cody: Yeah. And my community again. I freaking love Palisade. We know that. Well. Yeah.

Lisa: And you have a chance to build a community here that’s what you want it to be.

Cody: Yeah.

Lisa: Which is a really cool thing to do.

Cody: Yeah. I’ve, Yeah, I’m. I’m really happy about, you know, working with the people that are here and building them up to whatever they want to be in their career. I’m happy to see where they’re gonna go or if they stay. You know, whatever happens, I’m just happy that it’s ours and that we can, you know, control the outcome, best we can.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good footnote.

Cody: Put in. Put in. We’re gonna put in what we get out.

Lisa: Yeah. For sure.

Cody: Or get out what we put in. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to tell everybody, you know, we just got this place on July 21st. We have a long way to go. The folks that have already come in to see us that hadn’t been in in so many years. I just really, truly thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I look forward to having the rest of you in when you feel ready and hang in there with us while we turn the ship in the middle of the storm. You know, it’s September. It’s busy. And, you know, not to be too corporate, building the plane while we fly it. Right. But, you know, like I said, what we’re gonna be a year from now, two years from now, five years from now, is just gonna continue to, you know, we’re striving to be that place for Palisade again, and we are excited to have you come through our doors and enjoy some great drinks and have some laughs and create some memories. And, you know, Mike and I and Jesse and Desa will be right here with you the whole time.

Lisa: Wonderful. Looking forward to it.

Cody: Thank you, hon. I appreciate it. Thank you for coming to chat with me.

Lisa: Thanks for taking the time out of all the things you have going on around here. It’s just like a buzzing hive of activity. So I appreciate you taking time out to talk with me.

Cody: Oh, thank you so much. I love this. I really do. And I’m really proud of you’re doing so good. You are.

Lisa: Sometimes.

Cody: We’re all sometimes doing good.

Lisa: Yeah. Thank you so much, Cody.

Cody: Thank you, hon.

LM: Experience Peach Street Distillers’ fresh start for yourself at 144 South Kluge Avenue in Palisade. They’re holding a welcome back party on Saturday, October 18^th with a ribbon cutting at 4pm followed by music, food, and drinks – and lots of familiar faces. It sounds like a fun and fitting kickoff for the new iteration of Peach Street Distillers.

The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend by Geoff Roper.

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.

Today, we’re taking a deep dive into the farewell dinner that La Plaza hosts each year to honor and celebrate the efforts of that year’s migrant farm workers.

Join me as I find out what it takes to prepare and serve dinner and a party to more than 100 migrant farm workers and their families, to say thanks (and see you next year)!

 

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Transcript:

(fade in to sound of cheering)

This is Postcards From Palisade. I’m Lisa McNamara. Today, we’re taking a deep dive into the farewell dinner that La Plaza hosts each year to honor and celebrate the efforts of that year’s migrant farm workers.

Join me as I find out what it takes to prepare and serve dinner and a party to more than 100 migrant farm workers and their families, to say thanks (and see you next year).

Dinner guest: Gracias! Hasta luego!

Iriana: Hasta luego! My name is Iriana Medina and I am the executive director at La Plaza. The purpose of the farewell dinner, it’s to honor and say thank you to the workers for the hard work that they’ve done throughout the season. We just have a, not just, but we have the chef volunteer who puts her crew of volunteers for the kitchen together and then we get, we do our part on getting a crew of volunteers too to put this together. You know, the party part, like, you know, setting all the chafing dishes, all the food, bringing it out here, tables, chairs, all the logistics that a party has, pretty much. Music, of course, because music is very important.

We also collect donations throughout the year, things that could be useful for them and that they could bring home with them because they, throughout the season, they collect and buy stuff to bring over to their families. And so this is a little bit of something to bring home with them for the families.

They wait for this, and this year we moved it to August because usually we have the dinners on the second week of the month, but by the second week of September, many of them are gone. So we noticed last year that a lot of people missed it. So we wanted to, we were mindful about this. And so this year we’re having another dinner in September, but the farewell, we decided to do it in August so a lot more people could come and enjoy this event that’s made for them.

It’s very festive because they know that there are prizes, they know that there’s not going to be services pushed on them. Not that they get, that we push services on them, it is that, they need services while they are here. So in these dinners, the main purpose during the season is that they can connect with other services that provide, that have programs that are different than ours so that they know they’re available and that they can connect with them directly and be beneficiaries of these services, that those other agencies in the valley have. Tonight, it’s merely fun. And dinner, food, music, prizes. And a big thank you.

(cheering fades out)

LM: The day before, Tuesday, Lynn Foster (aka Chef Lynn), that’s how she’s in my phone, Robin Gale, and I sat down in the dining room at the La Plaza building. La Plaza hosts dinners each month, called resource nights. Chef Lynn plans the menu for the monthly dinners and for the farewell dinner, sources the ingredients, puts together the work plan, schedules volunteers, and cooks much of the meal.

Lynn spends all day Monday shopping and delivering ingredients to La Plaza. Tuesday is the hard prep day in the La Plaza kitchen. Tuesday morning, Chef Lynn reviewed the farewell dinner menu and work plan with Robin and me.

Lynn: Good morning.

Lisa: Good morning. Okay, so just be yourself.

Lynn: I am. So we’re gonna do. Here’s the menu. Roast pork that Larry’s cooking that’s gonna come at four tomorrow, 3 to 4 o’clock. And we’re gonna shred it up with green chili sauce that I’m gonna try and dream up and make good. And rice, beans, shredded lettuce with radishes and pickled carrots. Watermelon, apple pie with cinnamon whipped cream.

Lisa: Okay.

All together: And the corn. And jalapenos. Oh, and of course, pickled jalapenos.

Lynn: And don’t forget, we’re also shucking 100 ears of corn and we’re gonna make that into street corn somehow.

Lisa: Sounds great.

Lynn: I know. Should be. And we’re expecting 100 people.

Robin: And it’s 100 degrees.

Lynn: And it’s 100 degrees and there you go.

Lisa: All right, so what are we doing today, then?

Lynn: Okay, so the corn is in there. I don’t know where you want to do it. Depending on what you’re more comfortable with. You can sit down and do it. You’re gonna make a big mess so I wouldn’t even worry about it. I’d just sweep it up when you’re done. Gail got to do this last time.

Lisa: We may want to sit.

Robin: We may want to sit. Yeah, I’m thinking like a corn shucking party.

Lynn: Yeah.

Robin: So many times we really have to stand. But I think that’s something we can just do sitting.

Lynn: And I’m gonna sort of run around to begin with and just get anchored because I want to start beans. I meant to be making the green chili, but then I forgot the green chilies. That’s okay. I can start it today. So I want to put my rice…

Robin: I have green chilies.

Lynn: No, I have them.

Robin: Oh, just not with you.

Lynn: Right.

Robin: They’re at home.

Lynn: So they’re all in the refrigerator. No, I have a whole big bag of big jims that I got at the market on Sunday and…

Robin: Yeah, that’s exactly what I got.

Lynn: Yeah, love them. I love that guy. All right.

Robin: Okay.

Lynn: So, yeah, here we go.

Lisa: Alright, let’s do it. Corn.

Robin: My hand will be very tired. And that’s using this. Using my brain.

Lynn: Mine would be crippled. Okay, ready?

(corn chopping and shucking sounds)

Robin: Look at that.

Lisa: That’s pretty great. I oh, I didn’t do that one very well. Do we want any knob left on this side, or do you think we want it totally off?

Robin: No, I think we take the knob off.

Lisa: Okay.

Robin: This part of the knife. The heel.

(corn chopping and shucking sounds)

Lisa: I’m going to have to refine my technique a little bit.

LM: OK, imagine these noises continuing for an hour, which is about how long it took the two of us to get through the corn. After Chef Lynn, Robin, and I worked through Tuesday morning and got a good chunk of prep done, we took a break and I asked Lynn to explain how she plans the menus each month, where she sources the food, and why it’s so important to her to make a delicious meal with high-quality ingredients.

Lynn: I think about it a lot. Like, depending on what we have, how many people are going to have, you know, at the beginning of the summer, I think we only did 38 and now we’re doing 100. And this will be the third time we’ve done a hundred people. So depending on what we have, I write a list, decide what I’m going to do, see who my volunteers are. So for instance, this time we just shucked a hundred ears of corn because we’re going to attempt to make street corn on the fly on a griddle. And I just kind of work it from there. And depending. So we have a stove with eight burners, but it doesn’t have ovens. So we’re extra challenged. So I’ve got to have something I can boil or cook on actual flame burners. Or we have a butane griddle outside that we use out there. So those are what we have to work with. Or sometimes we talk a lovely neighbor into roasting all the pork for us, which will arrive tomorrow, which is great. So it just kind of works itself.

This time I’m doing apple pies, which I happened to source from Sam’s Club. But they’re delicious. But to make them a little fun, I’m gonna make fresh cinnamon whipped cream, which I think will go over big. And our members are just, they’re so appreciative. And this time, we do watermelon almost every time, because we know they’re dehydrated. They’ve been working so hard all day. Make sure there’s lettuce and there has to be pickled jalapenos. Our members, our farm workers, love whole pickled jalapenos, which can only be found from one location. And oftentimes they’re out. So. And I get the number 10, which is a restaurant size can for them. And they eat them all.

The lower the stature of the person, the higher the quality I’m going for. I start on Monday, I come to La Plaza, I pick up some gift cards. I go to first I go to Sam’s Club. Yesterday that’s where I got the meat and the pies and the limes. Then I go to Shamrock and get the pickled jalapenos. And then I go to Walmart, who has what I think is the best selection of and the most reasonably priced Mexican ingredients, to get my jalapeno, my roma tomatoes, my white onions. And this time we have a special lady that comes down from Olathe and brings a truckload of corn every day. So I communicated with her and along with the grocery shopping, I picked up a hundred ears from the corn lady in front of the Jiffy Lube.

And, and you know, and then, okay, so Monday I go gather it all up. Had to drop the pork off. Come here. They help me unload, get it in the refrigerators. Then at 8:00 last night, I knew where there were really good watermelons. So I went and bought three really good watermelons. Because it’s so worth it. Like it’s just so. For me, it’s so worth it. Like, if I’ve always said if I’m gonna work this hard, it should be really good, otherwise why would I work so hard?

Okay, so then Tuesday, this is our Tuesday. And now we prep. And I get really willing people to come in and do the really heavy prepping. While I’m running around putting the rest of it together, I’m making the first vat of green chili sauce I’ve ever made. And I know what I want it to taste like. We’ll see how it turns out. I can make anything pretty good to eat, so I can just sort of throw it out there.

So then that’s today and we’ll finish this up. I’ll go home and rest up and then we come back tomorrow and we will finish everything up. Get it ready. We’re having, the guys have been coming in at five, but now they need to stay in the fields longer. So I’m happy to know that we’re going to start not till 6:30 so we can get more guys.

And as an aside thing, one of my favorite things is seeing these guys that have worked so hard that maybe, you know, you sort of have the. They all. You think they all know each other, but maybe they don’t. They’re from different parts of Mexico. And so to get here, to come here and socialize and hang out with each other and then eat a really good home cooked meal that’s so satisfying and they’re so appreciative.

Geri just rolled in and Geri makes a lot of stuff happen. For me as a volunteer opportunity, the fact that I can be here and it’s not formal is why I can be here. Because I’m not formal. I’m not a committee. And again, they just work with me, whether it’s how cranky I get or…

LM: Geri had brought over a huge chile relleno burrito from “the burrito lady” and as Lynn and I chatted, Geri carved us off generous slices. Throughout the day, La Plaza staff pop in and out of the kitchen, offering samples of whatever snack they’re having, taste-testing our dishes, and giving advice. After we enjoyed a delicious little burrito snack, I asked Lynn why she volunteers to plan and create these meals. Geri was quick to pipe in.

Geri: Because she’s wonderful!

Lynn: This is my third full year, and I tell people, this takes a lot out of me. I’m almost 72 years old, but I still love to do this. And not everybody can do this. First of all, I’m a generous person by nature. And then I. You know, I have famous friends. They write cookbooks. They are on. I have one friend that’s all over Food Network. God bless her, and yay. But all I ever wanted to do was literally feed people. I’m very clear on that. That I just want to feed people. So anytime I can think up a time to feed people, I do. Then, this is an enormous effort. It’s an enormous undertaking. But to know that I can still pull it off and that those hundred people all get something, there’s a portion for everybody. It’s. It’s like food that shocks them. It’s so good. I think that it’s a little bit, like, macho ego or something, or just there’s a small part of that, just like. Well, because I’m. And my husband says to me, when I first met. When I was first with my husband, I went off to feed 120 kids in Baltimore, and I made meatloaf with them in a small kitchen. And he was like, who’s paying for this? And he quickly learned never to ask such a silly question again, because it’ll get paid for somehow. And if part of it is mine, that doesn’t even occur to me, because there’s a mission here. We’re going to make this meal. We’re going to have a great time. And, you know, and I’m tired for three days after I do this.

Robin said, yeah, I needed Advil after a couple hours with Lynn. And it’s true, especially the schlepping. And of course, I have to get you guys to do that now. I did a lot more of that for so. I worked pedal to the metal for 20 years straight. Just worked myself and loved it because I love cooking and I love food, and I love anytime I can learn a new thing. What was I was telling you today, I learned the other day in Sam’s Club, a Mexican woman said to me, oh, those pinto beans look so fresh. Where’d you get them? I said, well, you know, they’re right there on the shelf. I didn’t realize pinto beans. I know that beans can get old, but I didn’t realize I could look at them and know from the color. So I learned a new thing that day.

LM: The La Plaza kitchen is not huge. It’s a commercial kitchen, but it’s tight. And during dinner prep or tamale making, it has to do many things at once.

Lynn: So in the three years I’ve been here, this place has come up a long way. When I first came in here it was Liz and Shad Dirks. I just put out on Facebook, I’m cleaning the migrant kitchen. Do you want to come help me? And they showed up. Well, Liz like dazzled. Oh my God. That woman just, you know, restaurant animals, you know them when you see them. And Shad too. And he and I, we also do the tamales, which I didn’t want to do tamales but I do the tamales and we do. Our record was one Christmas we did 562 tamales. And again that’s a three day process too. But so they came. I know I’ve thrown out, I’m not exaggerating 90 pairs of those stupid plastic tongs you get when you get carry out food that don’t work and they break. And every time I come in and find more I just throw those out too. But at any rate, back in the day they used to feed the migrants every day. So we had like 200 plastic glasses like you’d see in a diner. And so we just have been purging and purging and trying to keep it to what we do use and also bringing in equipment that we do need.

For two of those years we were sharing a refrigerator with our friend Oscar who owns El Rey Mexican Food. And we all worked out of a single door professional refrigerator. And it was, it was a challenge. And now we have a double door refrigerator all to ourselves. That’s amazing.

Lisa: And Oscar has his own restaurant!

Lynn: But we have this used stove that just doesn’t do much. It only, it has eight burners. It served its time. It belonged to one of the restaurants in downtown Grand Junction. For a long time. They donated it to us. My philosophy is stop taking donated equipment in a setting like this, because it costs you money and it doesn’t work right. But at any rate, so we’re now working on getting a new stove which we’ve got some donations and I think we’re close and I may go, we like to go to the farm market and introduce our, I may put on my chef’s coat and go take a little tin cup and see if I can raise the money. Because we really do. When we have a stove, we’ve got a fully, that kitchen can do anything. Like my challenge, but I keep trying anyway, is to make decent rice. Cause it can’t get hot enough soon enough. We’ve come close. It’s been edible, but I haven’t like, nailed it. And, I mean, it’s rice for goodness sake.

LM: So that’s what goes into the menu planning and ingredient sourcing, as well as the creativity and flexibility that is needed to make these meals come together.

Let me just recap the menu for the farewell dinner. This is all made by hand, from scratch. We’re having:

• Roasted pork smoked offsite by Robin’s husband, Larry (as an aside, the previous month, the pork had been donated and cooked to perfection by Matt Payne of Chicken Grit Farms).

• Continuing, warm green chili to serve with the pork.

• Spanish rice with tomatoes, onions, seasoning (where I learned there is such a thing as tomato bouillon!), carrots, and peas.

• Pinto beans, seasoned with fresh Mexican oregano and cooked up from dry beans.

• Shredded iceberg lettuce with chopped scallions, grated radishes, and picked carrots. More on the shredded lettuce soon…

• Wedged limes.

• Whole picked jalapenos (which, yeah, those come from a can).

• Sliced black diamond watermelon, because it’s tastier than “regular” watermelon.

• Street corn, made from the best sweet corn from Olathe’s corn lady, parboiled, then grilled by Tyler Hopkinson (outside in 100 degree heat), then topped with a particular brand of lime mayo, chili powder, and cotija cheese.

• For dessert, apple pies (from Sam’s Club due to the lack of oven), topped with homemade cinnamon whipped cream.

• Oh, and I forgot, the tortillas that needed to be steamed at the last secondto bring the whole meal together.

Phew, that’s a lot, right?

So day one, Tuesday, was hard prep day – taking care of the things that take time and that can be done in advance. Shucking the corn, grating the radishes, starting the beans. And always dishes, constant loads of dishes, run through the small, very warm and very noisy commercial dishwasher.

On day two, Wednesday, Chef Lynn, Robin and I were back at it. Day two is execution day. Earlier in the day, the soft things can be done, things like shredding the iceberg lettuce.

Now, if it was me making this meal, I would buy large bags of pre-shredded iceberg lettuce and call it a day. I buy pre-shredded lettuce for myself at home and it’s good enough, right?

It is not good enough for Chef Lynn. Let me tell you about Chef Lynn’s method for producing the best shredded iceberg lettuce:

• First, you start with whole heads of iceberg lettuce.

• Cutthe heads into quarters, then run each quarter through a mandolin slicer.

• Place the shredded pieces into a big bowl of ice water to soak as you work.

• There’s always pieces that won’t go through the mandolin, so I slice them by hand because I can’t bear to throw them away.

• Once the bowl fills up with shredded lettuce, rinse and drain it in the food prep sink.

• Then spin the shredded lettuce in a salad spinner in small batches (no more than 3 handfuls at a time) to fully drain off the water.

• Line a large tub with paper towels. Put the drained lettuce in the tub up to one inch deep.

• Add another layer of paper towels and another layer of shredded lettuce, over and over again, until the tub is full.

• Place the tub in the fridge to fully cool.

• Closer to serving time, take the shredded lettuce out of the tub, remove the layers of paper towels, and move it into serving platters, topping it prettily with rows of sliced green onions, shredded radishes, and pickled carrots. Fill three serving dishes with this pretty mixture, then back into the fridge they go.

Robin and I did this with 10 or 12 heads of iceberg, taking turns between slicing and draining as we each filled the bowls. It probably took an hour to get through it all.

I think this process perfectly captures Chef Lynn’s care and dedication to absolute perfection. Who else would put this much effort into the shredded lettuce?

After Robin and I had finished our shift on Wednesday, we took a breather with Chef Lynn on the couch in the break room, before the next shift came in to do the final prep and get everything over to the gym, where dinner was being served by shift three.

Monthly resource night dinners are usually served at La Plaza’s offices, but the farewell dinner was being served at the Town of Palisade gymnasium, so as to accommodate the large number of people expected in one single, air conditioned room. That posed a few extra logistical challenges, but we had had time to start staging for the next team who would take everything over to the gym.

I asked Lynn how she felt that morning coming in. The sound quality is a little rough here, because we were all a bit exhausted.

Lynn: I felt great coming in this morning. You know, we’re all organized and we’re good and I think we have a spectacular dinner. That’s what I think.

Robin: And it, to me it’s like a summer. It’s a great summer dinner.

Lynn: It’s like a feast.

Robin: It’s like a feast. All the beautiful corn, the watermelon that everything is going to be so fresh. They are going to love it.

Lynn: And my cinnamon whipped cream is going to turn out. It’s gonna be beautiful. This is the execution day. Because you, make it all. It all comes together. So we have three more volunteers coming in. One who is going to be out in the 100 degree heat charring off the corn for our street corn a hundred ears. And then we have two other people that will be keeping this going and sending everything across the street. And we’ll have volunteers who will be running it across the street and carts.

Lisa: And, your husband cooked all the pork yesterday, right.

Robin: Larry was the pork master yesterday.

Lisa: He’s going to bring it all over later.

Robin: When he saw how many pork butts were in Lynn’s car.

Lynn: They were on sale. So I got a couple extra and I pull up and he goes, you only told me 5.

Robin: Why do you have 10? And got them all shredded for us last night. He shredded it and he degreased all the stock, leftover stock.

Lynn: The leftover liquid from it and he soaked it in everything in apple juice. So it. And then I made my first ever green chili sauce, and I put sausage in there and used the stuff that he had leftover from the pork. It’s a team effort. And I think this says something about our town, because if you ask people to volunteer here, they’ll shock you. They’ll just. They’ll show up. And it might not be 10 people, but you didn’t need 10 people. You only needed two. And two people show up.

Robin: Absolutely.

Lisa: Robin, why do you you help?

Robin: Why do I help? It is such a small thing that we can do for the appreciation that we get every time. Every time you eat a peach here, I mean, it is. We are in an amazing place, and I couldn’t be out in the heat like they are all day. I could not do it. And it’s just a one little, little thing that we can do to show how appreciative we are of the work that they do for us.

Lynn: And I think they know it. I got asked the question earlier today. I tend to leave because I’m exhausted after three days, and I just. I’m too spent to be here. And I was asked, don’t you want to see the people appreciate it? And I very much do. And as a chef, when I get a dining room full of people that were chattering away, but they get a plate of food and it goes silent, you just know you hit your mark because, yeah, they’re conversing, but then suddenly they got to get busy eating what you just prepared for them. And they do. And sometimes, a lot of times I do walk out as they’re just as they’re coming and they say here’s the chef. And they cheer me and that’s all. And also see if I know it’s good. I don’t. I don’t need to see it because I already know. And I did it on. I went to that trouble on purpose and meant every single thing.

Robin: And there’s no leftovers. That’s how you know.

Lynn: Oh yeah.

Robin: There will not be leftovers tonight.

Lynn: Just thank you for doing this though, because this was. This is fun. And I’m looking forward to seeing how you splice up make me sound sensible.

Lisa: I really appreciate how you organize everything here…

LM: I was sitting too far from the mic during this recording, so my sound quality further deteriorated here, but I went on to tell Lynn “I really appreciate how you organize everything here. It’s like multi dimensional chess in your head. You kind of have everything thought through and every detail planned out. And I appreciate that you make me feel useful too. Because I think a lot of times when I volunteer places, if they make you feel like they don’t really need you, why would I go back?”

Lynn: Right. Oh, well, that’s a nice compliment. I appreciate you appreciating me. The sense I have is that people like the direction. It’s like, not everybody could do this. But if you do righteous, perfect, like, she was just saying, all this perfect food, you can feel so good about it because you know that I didn’t give them any old thing. I gave them. I showed them how much I care about what they’re eating.

LM: Let me tell you a few things about Chef Lynn. When you walk into a kitchen where she’s in command, whatever kitchen it is, wherever it is, it’s HER kitchen (like any good chef). I first met Lynn shortly after we moved to Palisade. Paul and I hosted a post-Olde Fashioned Christmas parade Bike Palisade group party in the shell of our then-new home. We’d only had possession of the place for a few days, and I thought, what better way to inaugurate it than to host a party? I had to clean it anyway. Might as well make it nice and dirty first!

I didn’t know Lynn yet, but I was told that she’d be dropping off some chili for the party. We didn’t even live at the house at that time, so I rolled over to let her in before the parade. She was already there. She had bags and bags of things. The crock pot with chili – asking me which outlet was a good outlet to plug it in. I had no idea – I didn’t even know which outlets worked yet! And then there were the garnishes: cheese and I think probably onions and some kind of chips and probably some hot sauce. I’m sure there was more. And also bowls, spoons, and napkins. Things we didn’t have there yet. (Also, shout out to Gail Matthiessen for bringing over a few rolls of TP, which we also didn’t have at the house yet!). That warm chili was the perfect thing after a cold December night bike ride, and a great base for the keg of Palisade Brew that Mark Williams brought over.

But back to this kitchen, the La Plaza kitchen. When you’re in the kitchen, Chef Lynn tells you stories and if you’re wise, you realize those stories are lessons. What you take away from it is: don’t ask her where something is if you haven’t put in a good faith effort to find it first. Don’t ask her how to do something if it should be obvious. Remember the steps that she told you. When she corrects you, pay attention. If you drain that first batch of shredded lettuce and pile it up, then go back with the second batch to find that your piles have been scattered about loosely, so as to better dry – understand that and don’t pile it up again. Scatter it loosely.

Lynn’s always observing what you’re doing, how you’re doing it, and how you’re interacting with others. She decides who she wants doing what, when. So much so that it’s an honor to get a text from Chef Lynn asking if you’re available to help with a specific task. You’re not volunteering so much as being selected to volunteer. It’s an honor and if you’re wise, you accept it.

LM: After day two’s prep shift, I went home to eat dinner and ice my foot, then I went over to the gym to see how the night was going. When I arrived, the gym was full of cheering – La Plaza team members Iriana and Anahi were in the front of the room, giving away prizes. A big boom box played in the background between announcements in Spanish of the prize-winning numbers. Empty plates sat stacked on the tables.

A group of volunteers stood behind the almost fully-depleted trays of food, waiting to serve any last-minute arrivers. La Plaza team members Geri and Amanda were at the intake table and Augusto moved through the room, chatting with people and shaking hands.

The younger kids in attendance helped pull prize-winning numbers from a shoebox, in between running around the gym and generally having an awesome time. One of the littlest kids hugged Geri’s legs and wouldn’t let go. She smilingly brushed him off, but I could tell she didn’t really want to.

As the prize-winning numbers were pulled, big cheers went up from the tables. Everyone was smiling and laughing, excited about winning prizes either they or a family member could use. And the prizes ran the gamut. Everything from the last pie that hadn’t been needed that night to shoes, toiletries, curling irons, kitchen appliances, lawn chairs, blankets, jackets, and a spectacular pair of crystal-studded, blue cowboy boots that Anahi showed off throughout the drawing, building up excitement. It was a happy, festive atmosphere.

Towards the end of the evening, I talked with Amanda about the dinner and the prizes.

Amanda: My name is Amanda Perez. I am the community navigator here at La Plaza.

The farewell dinner is just, it’s a great opportunity for us to get together as a community and celebrate our local farm workers. This is a fun event that we get to put on every year, to give a, you know, a nice farewell to these guys, let them know that they’re important and that we love having them here.

So we do a raffle at each one of these farewell dinners. We’ve been collecting items since probably January, I’m sure, at least. Every time we get donations in, we’re like, ooh, that would be good for the raffle. And we just have been collecting a lot over the months. And so we’ve got, we had a pretty good selection of items today. People excited. I mean, they get excited about pretty much any of it, but I know especially, like, especially for those that are going back home here soon, they really love to get athletic shoes. Sometimes we give away like, bikes, pretty much anything. I think they’re having. We had some cowboy boots that they’re a little bit out of style, but they just had the funnest time just seeing those. And so, yeah, I think they had a lot of fun with those too. And I mean, they took them all right away.

We had a count of 120, but that was including our volunteers. But so there’s a little more than that with staff and some other people that came to help out. But, yeah, more than 120 people in the gym tonight.

It’s just a really great opportunity for us to get together one more time before everybody heads back home. Just to let them know that we appreciate them and we love having them around. And they’re an important piece of this community.

LM: So thanks to La Plaza, Chef Lynn, and all the volunteers for putting on the farewell dinner and sending a message of thanks home with this season’s migrant farm workers. As our markets fill up with fresh and delicious produce and every bite of a perfectly ripened peach or plum or melon reminds me of how lucky I am to live here and easily access this food, I can’t forget to join in the thank you to those who help our farmers thrive.

Even though this season is wrapping up, La Plaza’s work doesn’t stop. Soon it will be time to make batches of fundraising tamales, continue planning for future seasons, and continue supporting the immigrants who remain part of our community.

There are so many ways to contribute if you want to help. You can buy tickets to Quemando, a salsa concert at Grande River Vineyards on September 6^th, that is one of La Plaza’s biggest fundraising events of the year. You can donate money to La Plaza, either in general or for a specific cause, like a new commercial stove and oven for the kitchen. You can donate cool things for next year’s farewell dinner giveaway when you’re doing your 2026 spring cleaning.

If you want to help but are unsure how, you can always reach out to La Plaza at (970) 902-2491 or info@laplazapalisade.org or visit their website, https://www.laplazapalisade.org/.

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.

Do you ever wish you had had a chance to try out a career before committing to something that you’ll be doing for the rest of your working life? Well in the Grand Valley, D51 high school students have an opportunity to do just that.

Crystal Green, Career Pathways Coordinator for the Work-Based Learning Program at Palisade High School, explains how this awesome program works and why local businesses should participate.

If you are interested in signing your business up, visit the SchooLinks platform for more: https://tinyurl.com/schoolinksD51

Theme Music: Riverbend by Geoff Roper    

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Transcript:

Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade Podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara. Palisade is most famous for its peaches, but there’s so much more happening in our little town. Join me as I chat with our community members to hear about how they are making Palisade a great place to live and visit.

Today I’m speaking with Crystal Green, Career Pathways Coordinator for the Work-Based Learning Program at Palisade High School. The Work-Based Learning program is a partnership between District 51 schools and local businesses whose goal is to create a strong community and skilled local workforce. The program provides students with hands-on, real-world experience in the different career pathways available in our area.

I learned about this fantastic program at a Palisade Chamber of Commerce Community Over Coffee event, which in my opinion are worth the cost of chamber membership alone. These events gather local business and community leaders to explain what they do and answer questions in a small group setting. They’re an awesome opportunity for members to find out what is happening in the community and get questions answered directly by the source.

Today, Crystal explains what work-based learning is, how students and businesses prepare and participate, and why you should reach out, even if you’re not sure if your business would be a perfect fit. All that and more on today’s Postcard from Palisade.

Lisa: Thank you again so much for coming in to meet with me today.

Crystal: Thanks for having me. I’m Crystal Green. I am the Work Based Learning Coordinator or the Career Pathways Coordinator at Palisade High School.

Lisa: And so I learned about what you do recently at one of the Chamber of Commerce community over coffee events. And I thought it was so cool. And I thought that there’s a pretty good chance that somebody who doesn’t have a kid in high school or didn’t have a kid in high school may not be aware of this program. So that’s why I really wanted to have you in and just learn more about what you do and how the whole thing works. So I would love it if you could just kind of talk through the program. What is it? How long has it been around and how does it work?

Crystal: Well, work based learning has been around in D51 for decades, mostly through our CTE program, which is our career technical exploration. And from there it obviously, students like to go and work in the community. And so like I said, that’s kind of been around for a while. And D51 is really taking a larger step. And so we now have coordinators. So we have a district level coordinator and then we have a coordinator at all four major high schools. And what I do at Palisade High School specifically is I run our Futures Pathways program. And so we help students figure out early in their high school career what they want to do or potentially do. We allow them to get some of those foundational skills and even earn credentials that transfer directly into the workforce and then hopefully end in some kind of a hands on experience, whether it be an internship and apprenticeship or even sometimes higher education. So I kind of oversee all those programs and then help connect the businesses with students so that they can have those opportunities.

Lisa: That’s awesome. I so wish I had something like that when I was in high school. Because it’s a time in your life when everybody is saying, okay, decide what you want to do for the rest of your life! You’re like, well, I don’t know like I’m a teenager. So it’s such a cool thing.

Crystal: Right, right. I hear that a lot, actually. I do. I hear that a lot. I think what’s also really interesting about it is they hear oftentimes the careers that our students, even as freshmen are going to be doing don’t exist yet. And so it allows them to get some of those foundational skills that he can even transfer to some of those jobs that are still upcoming.

Lisa: That’s so cool. So with local businesses here, what kind of businesses are a good fit for the program? Or what kind of businesses do you work with here in Palisade?

Crystal: So really, any business that’s willing to share their expertise with students. We like to grow our own, and so these students are from here, live here, and it would be great if we could pass on some of those knowledge. I’ve been hearing a lot in the trades that we have a large population that are going to be retiring and no one to fill those positions. So the sooner that we can get students interested in that and they can be thinking about that and potentially start filling those roles, it’s really important. But any business that’s really willing to take the time to help a student, and it can be a reciprocal, positive experience. It’s not always just the business giving and giving. These students are very, very capable. And so if you give them the chance, you give them some directive, they have a lot of energy and a lot of creativity that even, you know, we sometimes run out of in our mundane day to day. And so it’s a great opportunity to bring in some energy and some fresh eyes even to your business. And social media has really taken off. You know, we’re doing it now. And, these students have lived it since they were little. And so that’s, I get a lot of requests from businesses wanting students to do that social media or even that technology part of it. So just any business that’s really willing to give some time to our students and give them a chance and show that they are capable is really a good fit.

Lisa: That makes a lot of sense, especially with the trades and everything. I know that there aren’t always traditional pathways into that career field. So that’s interesting. I don’t know if you can name names, but can you talk about any of the businesses that currently participate? And if you can’t then that’s OK too.

Crystal: Oh, sure. I’ve got several. So as you mentioned, the Palisade Chamber of Commerce, they’ve been instrumental in getting this off the ground. They are one of our biggest partners, not only with holding those events and allowing us to speak, where we met, but they do those networking events. They’ve also hosted, I believe, two, if not three. No, they’ve done three. Three interns, that have been really successful. And we’ve both been able to navigate what that looks like from both sides and for the student. So that’s been really nice to have that relationship where we can brainstorm what’s going well and what’s not as well. And then the chamber is in a good position to then support other businesses because they’ve also been through it.

Our Palisade Fire Department runs a full internship where they get students actually certified to become firefighters. They take a lot of time out of their day to run that. And so they’ve been very instrumental in getting our students prepared to be in the fire department or in EMS. Our Palisade Police Department also runs a class at Palisade High School. So the officers come in, a lot of times on their own time and teach our students everything they would learn if they went to the police academy, minus guns, because that’s not safe. And then they’re doing a year two internship where students are going to actually be at the police department and working alongside the police officers. So you might see them at the farmers markets, standing next to the police officer and doing things like that. And then we have three students that are actually going to be going and learning how to do dispatch. So there’s a time between when you graduate until you turn 21 where you can’t go to the police academy. And so we’re trying to keep the kids engaged during that time through different avenues.

Some other businesses in Palisade, Wine Country Inn allowed our students to do a lot of behind the scenes and work some of their festivals. So they’ve been a great partner. And I think there’s going to be even more there to come. The Historical Society had an intern and that was a lot of fun for both parties there. And then the Blue Pig also had an intern. And so a lot of our local Palisade businesses have really supported this program.

Lisa: It’s just such an invaluable experience because again, there’s nothing like actually doing something to find out if you like it or not or if you want to spend your career doing this kind of thing. So that on the job shadowing and working alongside people in that field is so fascinating, that’s such a cool experience for kids to have.

Crystal: You know, I say sometimes to the kids, like, you try your shoes on before you buy it. You try your car before you buy it. Why would you not try your career? I think it’s something like you spend 98,000 hours, something crazy like that, in your job. So why wouldn’t you want to try before you buy or try before you go to school? Dropout rate is real. Changing your major takes time and money and resources. Maybe college isn’t even for you. So these students can kind of try to figure all that out even before they take any of those really big steps.

Lisa: So I think you kind of highlighted some of the success stories there with that list. But is there anything else that you want to talk about that, you know, really resonated with you.

Crystal: There’s a lot of success stories that come out of this. And again, it’s not even just for the students. It’s also good publicity for our businesses, getting their name out there. These students are well connected and so are their parents. And so there’s no better way than word of mouth of saying, like, hey, I’m doing an internship at you the Blue Pig. What’s that? It’s an art place. You should come check it out. They’ve got this cute little coffee shop, so that word of mouth really travels far.

Some of our students have been so successful in some of the work they’ve done, so I’ll go back to the social media, that they had so many clients and so much success that they were able to kind of spin off and run their own business doing social media marketing for businesses, alongside going to school for that. We have another student that did an internship and that turned into a career for them. And so I think that that’s the success stories that we’re looking for is not only are these students being productive members of society and finding what they’re passionate about, but they’re also supporting our local businesses and staying right here.

Lisa: Yeah. Win, win. Also for keeping the community kind of spirit going and keeping, you know, the multiple generations in our community here in Palisade too, is so important for that. So I have the handout here that you handed out at the chamber event. And I just noticed there are so many different ways that businesses can engage with the program. It’s almost like anything you can think of, you can possibly do it. So what’s the best way for a business to figure out what option would work best for them?

Crystal: So like you said, there’s several different ways. If you find that you only have a small amount of time but you do want to help out with students, having a site visit, having students come to your place of business, coming in and being a guest speaker, those are great ways to kind of dip your toes in and see if this is what’s best for you. We’re really hoping to form businesses and relationships for the internships and apprenticeships portion of it.

And if you are interested to know more about that, the best way to contact us is through one of those coordinators. So again we’ve got a district level coordinator. So if you just call the district and ask for the work based learning coordinator, you could find her. And then again there’s one at all the four major high schools. I’m Crystal Green at Palisade High School. And you can just call the school and get connected to us and we can set up a time to meet and kind of talk about what that looks like.

We also just rolled out a software that we’re using. It’s called School Links. And so it’s a really easy way for you to even sign up without having to meet with us. If you just get that information and then you can basically make your own profile. And then if you are willing to do just a job shadow, you can post that on there. If you’re wanting to do more of like an internship, you would post that on there. And from the kids side it looks like an Indeed page. So I was just on it this morning. So from a student perspective I got on and I saw there’s a job shadow and there’s an internship and so I can apply to those. And then the coordinators would step in and help coordinate, like do you want to interview these students? Do you want us to pick them for you? But it’s a really nice streamlined way for you guys for them to see what’s available, for you to show what’s offered. And then all the paperwork is also very easy. It’s all electronically done. And then once you’ve set that up and you’re working with a student outside of that, your time is very minimal. The students will turn in a timesheet and it takes you about probably two minutes to log in, review it and hit approve. So we’re trying to really streamline that.

One thing we heard when we first started doing all this was I would love to do that but I don’t know where to start. And so these coordinators are in place now and this software is in place now to hopefully streamline that. All of the chambers are also aware of this. So if you even don’t even know where to contact someone in the district, the chambers are happy to be that kind of middle person to help you not only make your website or get on there and do your profile but also to connect us you to the work based learning coordinators.

Lisa: I’ll include a link to that School Links, I’ll include that in the episode notes. So that’s really the first place. Or either contact you or check out the School Links and that’s really your starting point.

Crystal: Or the chambers. Yep.

Lisa: Or the chambers. Thanks. Yep. I like that there’s so many different options too. Just it. So it could be as much basically as much time investment as you want. You can put a lot of time into it. You can put a little time. And there’s still something that might work and benefit.

Crystal: Absolutely. And the four schools are working really well together. So you know, whatever you offer will be sent out to the whole district. So it’s kind of nice to know that. So like even if you contacted me when you post that on school links, it does go out to all of the schools. and so you can get a student from any school.

Lisa: Okay. So it doesn’t necessarily have to just be in the town that you’re within. I think maybe we touched on this a little bit already. But what kind of skills are in demand from local businesses?

Crystal: And yeah, I think you a lot of conversation from that community over coffee. It was kind of funny because that’s the question we asked of the participants at the table and it was very basic things that they were looking for: being able to communicate, to answer or make phone calls, to do emails. How to address an envelope was actually one that popped up three different times at three different tables. Isn’t that interesting, because we just don’t do that anymore. And so I really took that to heart. So I teach the college and career prep class also at Palisade, which is mandatory class for sophomores. And I spent all day yesterday figuring out how I can get those skills specifically into that curriculum. So we’re going to have students writing envelopes in our class. We’re going to practice making phone calls and writing emails and doing some of that communication piece.

Lisa: Because, yeah, that’s not part of daily life anymore. You don’t have a pen pal that you write a physical letter to anymore or. Yeah, have to call your friends parents and ask for them to come to the phone and, yeah, wow, that’s fascinating.

Crystal: Even just knocking on the door. Like, people don’t knock on the door and say, hey, can someone so play now? Like, they text, hey, I’m here. So I think that, we’re gonna really spend a lot of time doing that kind of stuff in that class to get them better prepared.

Lisa: So how do you help the students get ready other than basic skills, things like that? I think you do a lot of work with students to get them prepared to participate in this program. You’re not just kind of plucking somebody out of a class and saying, okay, go work at the chamber for a few months.

Crystal: So I think the first step would be kind again, at Palisade, we do that sophomore class, where we do some of those foundational skills and then just being a part of the pathways, the students are in those, again, their CTE classes. So those career technical education classes where they’re learning some of those skills as well. So alongside of coding or carpentry, they’re learning those other business skills, soft skills.

And then as a district, we are working on finding a unified way to train our students, or we’re calling it onboard our students, for these internships specifically. So if you get a student from Central, Junction, Fruita or Palisade, they’ve all had the same kind of training so that they are prepared. That’s in the works. We’ve got talks with CMU and their workforce center. And so we’re going to pull in some of our business partners to kind of help us make this a unified resource for our students. But, yeah, we are not plucking them out of the classroom. They’ve had some training and some experience.

And again, I just, I like to mention this over and over again, like, a lot of our students are credentialed. Like they had to sit and pass the same test that the other adults do. So a lot of times that brings their maturity levels up because it becomes serious and real for them, when they’re holding that card that says, I can go work on a construction site. And so I think sometimes, you find that they’re ready to go just from that.

There are some growing pains, because some of them have never had a job. So just know if you do an internship, we are gonna preparing the best we can, but you may still have to do a few things to kind of get them up to par. But I think that that is what you should be willing to do if you are taking an intern, is to know that you’re gonna have some of those growing pains, but hopefully they adapt quickly.

Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. With any internship, it’s educational for the student as well. And, yeah, that’s kind of part of the experience.

Crystal: Some things that have kind of stood in our way from having some more business partners is we have a lot of individuals who love to take the CMU students, which CMU is a great resource and I love that that resource is there, and our pathways lead to that. However, I want to just emphasize that our high school students become those CMU students and our high school students have, this is their hometown. So sometimes the CMU students come and they don’t live here, and they’re going to take your resources and go, and that’s okay. But if we want to really work on providing our economy with help, I would say take a chance on some of these high school students. You would be amazed at what they’re able to do if you give them a little bit of space and a little bit of competence and they’re able to do great, great things.

And I would just challenge you to think about what is that 10th most important project on your list that you just don’t have time to get to and allow these high school students to do it. A lot of places will say, well, I can’t have a high school student in there because we have private information. Think mortgages, things like that. Banks. And true, students can’t sit in on those things. However, you still throw events. You still have other employees to take care of. Those are projects that the students could definitely still be immersed in the bank. They’re not sitting at the table with those private conversations, but they’re still hearing and seeing and having to dress up and learning how to shake hands. There’s so many things they can learn from still helping you throw an employee celebration or a public event. So think about those projects that you have sitting on your table that someone that is 17, 18 years old could probably tackle, and you might find that you really like the results.

Lisa: That is an excellent point. So long have you been in this role?

Crystal: So I moved here three years ago in July, so just passed our anniversary of moving here. And so I was originally not actually going to go back into teaching. And I moved in across the street from my principal’s family. And so he introduced himself as a principal and I said, well, I’m a teacher. And he said, you want a job? And I was like, sure. So I originally started in the Spanish classroom. And I don’t speak Spanish, but we had a student teacher that needed a certified teacher in the classroom. So I was there to help her with the classroom management and lesson planning, but she was actually doing the teaching in the Spanish. So no worries if you’ve ever had me in your Spanish class. I was not in charge of that part.

And I actually ran a program back in St. Louis through the center for Advanced Professional Studies, and it was a healthcare program. So I’m a science teacher actually by trade. And that healthcare program was very similar to what we’re trying to do here. I got students for half a day and they were just completely immersed in everything healthcare. And so when principal Bollinger saw that I had that on my resume, they were prepared to do what I’m doing and start the pathways, but they actually were planning on doing it a few years out. But they’re like, hey, you’re here. Let’s do it. And so we jumped in that January. I started finding internships. That first year I think we had 27 interns. And then the following year, we really started building the pathways that lead to those internships. So that was a lot of last year was a lot of building that and getting students through and figuring out what our processes are and meeting new people and gathering the resources. And this year’s going to be a lot of the same. Just kind of making sure that we’ve got solid foundations for everybody involved. And then starting to expand, hoping in the future that we can do something in that kind of tech IT creative field and also agriculture. So would you believe it or not, at Palisade High School we don’t have an agriculture program.

Lisa: No.

Crystal: So I’m in the works of trying to build or get a greenhouse on campus that goes along with our fish hatchery. So, thinking hydroponics and use the wastewater from the fish to do the hydroponics and working with some different places on what we would do with what we grow and how we could be resourceful in that. And so that’s my project for this year as well. So that’s kind of how I got started.

Lisa: I love that. That is such a cool tie to the community. That you’re right is so weird that that is missing right now. So I wonder if back in the day too they kind of, the students would get that through working more in the fields and now that that doesn’t really happen anymore you miss that connection or that pathway.

Crystal: Yeah. I think it would be great to tie it into our culinary and our hospitality pathway as well. So that field to fork or field to plate concept we could use some of those. The food that we grow to then they can use it in their plates and it would be kind of nice.

Lisa: So you didn’t move here intending to get into this at all. It was just sort of a happy accident. That’s really funny. What actually brought you here were or you just always wanted to come back to Palisade.

Crystal: No, actually we didn’t even know what Palisade was and we definitely didn’t even know what Grand Junction was. So we moved here for my husband’s job. He got transferred here to come manage his work. And honestly it’s funny because at the time, we have three little boys, so we were trying to find a four bedroom house so they all had their own rooms and the house that we purchased was really the only four bedroom house on the market at the time. And we didn’t really have a lot of time to shop around. They were wanting to get us out here pretty quickly, and had no idea that moving to Palisade was a thing. And so when we started telling people, well we bought a house in Palisade they were like, oh! And we’re like, what do you mean, oh? Like what’s oh? And now that we live here we definitely get it. But it was really funny because we didn’t even really know what we were moving into.

Lisa: That’s really cute. So getting into a new school year, is there anything you traditionally do to prepare for the year? It’s starting next week, right?

Crystal: It is starting next week, yes.

Lisa: Yeah. So how do you usually prepare? Is there anything you do differently this year than other years?

Crystal: Yeah, so I actually have spent yesterday and today working. And I would say step one is organizing because I juggle a lot of different tasks. You can imagine running these pathways, teaching a class, getting the internships set up, supervising those. So really just getting myself super organized and starting to get some processes in place so that I don’t drop the ball anywhere. And this year, because we’ve had the students kind of in the pathways for two and a half years, they’re ready for internships. So this year’s going to be a lot of networking and connecting students interest to businesses that are ready to host them.

And so this year was a lot of, let’s figure out who do I need to talk to on day one so that we can start getting them in these meaningful internships and get them this experience. So I would say this year’s been a little bit more on like, we got to hit day one, we got to hit it running. So really excited about that. Getting our fire academy up and running. So year two, this is going to be the first time, I think ever that they’ve had a year two for the fire academy. So we’re really excited about that. We have one student doing that and then our police academy, last year was the first year teaching, and then this will be the first year for that internship as well as the dispatch. And so really just making sure that our business partners are taken care of because this is a lot of unknowns for everyone, students, teachers, and the business partners involved. So just really trying to make sure that I’m out there and supporting them is probably my big focus. So that these are, the longevity is there. We’re keeping these relationships positive.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That’s a lot.

Crystal: It is, but I love it. I love it. I can teach in a biology classroom and I can be, you know, affect some kids lives by the information I give. What I get to do now is transformative. And I can have kids you know, “I loved this, this is my career. I’m gonna continue,” “I got a job,” to, “I hated that. And I’m so glad I didn’t go to school.” That’s a success story in itself. So what I get to do is really powerful and enjoyable. And I was just telling, I’m very excited to say I’ve got an assistant this year to help with some of those tasks. And that’s who I was just meeting with. And I told her, I was like, we get to have really fun days. And she’s like, okay, what do you mean? I was like, the police academy last year learned how to clear buildings, like, if there was a bad guy hidden in there. So they got these little fake blue guns, and they got to learn how to, like, just like you see in the movies, like, clear. How to go in and clear a room. And I was like, I got to sit there and watch that instead of sitting at a desk. Right? So it was, like, so fun. So we get to do a lot of fun things. Our construction day is always really fun. So if you’re wanting to partner in any way, shape, or form, these are the fun experiences that you could potentially have with kids.

Lisa: That’s so exciting. A lot more fun than just just grading papers.

Crystal: Yes.

Lisa: So now that we’ve been here for three years, have you found your favorite things to do in the community? Favorite parts about Palisade?

Crystal: I would have to say the small town feel is what we love about it. We came from just outside of St. Louis, so the population of our town was as much as the whole valley here. So you can imagine when people say there’s traffic here, we kind of giggle at them. So we really love the small town feel. My children right now are at the pool. I love that it’s a small pool and they’re there with friends. Everyone we’ve met here has been super nice and welcoming. My children have great relationships with their teachers and their coaches and their friends and even their friends’ parents. And so we were really able to, I don’t know, just integrate really easily. And as a mom, that was my biggest fear for my boys especially my oldest one was starting middle school, and now he’s starting high school.

And so I would just say the small town feel and how everyone’s just been really welcoming. I love the festivals and the festivities. And of course, the peaches. Wasn’t even a peach fan until I moved here. And now I have a peach tree in my backyard, which I’m watching the birds eat all of my peaches, but it’s okay. But, yeah, I would just say that we love, I think for our family, we really love the Christmas festivities. So my children, because they go to Taylor, have sang for the tree lighting and then just the cute little parade and we really enjoy that. And I have my family coming in for Peach Fest. So just all the festivals and the people we’ve met and yeah, I would say that’s probably the biggest.

Lisa: I love the Peach Fest, the ice cream social downtown with, like, the street dancing and everything. I just think that is the cutest event ever. And the tug o’ war.

Crystal: It is cute. It is a lot of fun. And we love. Yeah, we love all the outdoor things. So I have three little boys and a lab, and so we swim and hike. And my husband and I love to go camping. And the Mesa’s amazing. And, you know, we live right on the Colorado river, so we try to take advantage of that as much as we can when we’re not traveling for our travel sports.

Lisa: Right, of course. So. So would you say on the whole, you’re happy you moved here? Or? That was a gimme.

Crystal: Yes, we love it here. We actually just asked our boys, like, would you ever, you know, do you want to go back? And, sorry, mom and dad, but they said no. So. No, they’re. They’re loving it here, too. And they love their friend group and schools, and they’re excited for this year.

Lisa: That’s so good to hear. Anything else you want to add or share?

Crystal: I think I would just say, if you’re a business on the fence, I would say give me a call and let’s talk. And even more importantly, I’ll let you talk to some students and you can kind of hear the impact that it can have. And if you have any concerns, I would also say, I’ve mentioned this a couple times, the chambers are really supportive of this. And they also have supports in place, too, for you. I know that they run different workshops on how to host an intern. I think that’s through Fruita Chamber. And I know Palisade and Fruita are sisters. And so there’s a lot of resources out there.

There’s also resources on how to pay your interns that doesn’t necessarily have to come out of your income stream. And so the workforce center works with us on that. And if you’re interested in an apprenticeship, which is a little bit more in depth than an internship, there is tax credits right now in the state of Colorado. So there are other financial benefits to having students come in. So just be brave, make the call. Let’s see how it works. And there’s nothing to say that if you don’t like what you hear, that’s okay. Maybe you can just be a guest speaker. And if you love what you hear, then let’s move forward.

I just really want to a take a moment to give a shout out to any businesses or individuals that have taken time to have students. It can be challenging. It’s a learning experience. It’s something that can be scary. You’re definitely. We take it to heart that this is your business and your livelihood. And so I just want to say thank you to any businesses that have already interacted or even just made a connection, even if you didn’t have a student come into your business. I do have some advocates out there that have been just working really hard to make connections for me. Hey, this know you do this business, this person is a great person to contact. We think this could be a good relationship. That’s kind of how we got into Wine Country Inn. And so I just want to say thank you to anyone that’s been a connector or have hosted a student or come in and spoke to our students. I’m definitely not doing this alone. And it’s been a community effort and definitely a village. And I just appreciate everyone who’s been a part of it.

Lisa: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me and hopefully spread the message to others in the community who maybe haven’t come across this program before and inspire them to reach out and get involved. So I appreciate everything that you do too.

Crystal: Thank you.

Lisa: Really, it’s such a cool job and it’s awesome just to see the excitement you have for it. And I’m sure you bring that to the students and to everybody you work with too. So thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it, Crystal.

Crystal: Thanks for having me and thanks to everyone for listening.

Lisa: After we stopped recording, I was joking with Crystal about how I lack the skills to make video podcasts, and she said, ‘well, maybe you should get a D51 intern to help you with that!’ So there you have it, there truly is an opportunity for everyone! Maybe you’ll see video Postcards from Palisade in a future season…

If you think your business might be a good fit for this program, visit the SchooLinks platform to sign up and learn more: https://tinyurl.com/schoolinksD51 or call PHS at 970-254-4800 or call your local chamber of commerce.

The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend by Geoff Roper.

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.

Ride along with Corinna Scott and me as we chat about our new business, Peachy Pedicab, the nerdy things we geek out about, the challenging and fun parts of starting our own business, local adventures, Palisade history, travel hacks, and lots more.

Theme Music: Riverbend by Geoff Roper  

 

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Transcript:

Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade Podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara. Palisade is most famous for its peaches, but there’s so much more happening in our little town. Join me as I chat with our community members to hear about how they are making Palisade a great place to live and visit.

Today I’m joined by my friend and business partner, Corinna Scott. Corinna and I started Peachy Pedicab, a pedicab tour company, in March of this year, after both going through what could probably be described as our own independent midlife crises. Peachy Pedicab offers all kinds of tours – wine, farm, and history, along with pedicab shuttles and rides. Corinna is the main driver, and I take care of more of the behind-the-scenes, business type stuff.

Corinna and I drove to Salt Lake City and back in a day to pick up our first pedicab earlier this year. Listening back to our conversation, I was struck by how it basically could have been recorded from the backseat on that drive.

So come ride along with us as we quiz each other about the nerdy things we geek out over, the challenging and fun parts of starting our own business, our life-changing float through the Gates of Lodore, local adventures, Palisade history, travel hacks, and lots more, on today’s Postcard from Palisade.

Lisa: Corinna Scott.

Corinna: Lisa McNamara.

Lisa: Today we’re talking about something that we both should know a lot about because it’s our new business.

Corinna: Yes. Peachy Pedicab. Here we are.

Lisa: Tell me about why you wanted to start a pedicab business.

Corinna: it really combines like all the things I love the most. Palisade, riding a bike, talking. Most specifically talking about, like telling people about this town. I love this town. I always have. So it’s just super fun. And you know, it’s wine tours so people are enjoying themselves and it’s not, you know. I feel like I understand and recognize that my pedicab experience is very different than most. A lot of other pedicab drivers. Right. Like, most people are. Pedicabs are really popular in big cities. And I rode a pedicab 20 years ago. Probably more than that actually, at this point. Yikes. And, you know, I think I paid 20 bucks all that time ago to go three blocks in New York and like, it was, you know, I wasn’t scared, but I’m pretty sure if few of the other passengers were. But, you know, I’ve always been. Not that it’s a daredevily thing, but I, you know, in New York City, it was definitely way more daredevily than it is out on these peachy streets.

Lisa: Yeah, no, it’s a totally different scene. Like in New York, it’s, maybe a novelty or a weird way to get three blocks away and spend a hundred bucks. And here in Palisade, it’s a great way to spend the whole day exploring our town.

Corinna: Yeah. For about 100 bucks.

Lisa: For about hundred bucks hours.

Corinna: Hours. You know the cost ratio, I think we got them beat there. But yeah, so it’s just super fun. You know. I think most people are aware that I rode for another company for, you know, several years and I just loved it. And I am gonna be 45 years old in a few weeks, like it was time to. You know, I’ve always, had a real corporate job. You know, my background is real super corporate-y. I worked for banks when I was like 16. And it, you know, it just. I love this. So if I’m gonna do something that I love, you know, if, if I just always. My parents are both small business owners, so I think it’s really in my blood. But I was just always so scared because I didn’t have the safety net of that corporate structure. And it, to be fair, is a little like, unnerving to not have such a structured day, so to speak. Like on the days that I don’t have tours or, you know, it’s not busy or whatever. But, I just. I gotta do it. I have to believe in myself. You know, I feel like I’ve always prided myself on doing a good job at whatever it is that I’m doing. So, like, if it’s what I love and I’m working for me, then it, you know, it’s a whole other level. So, yeah, I’m excited. You know, I get asked a lot what I’m gonna do in the off-season. We haven’t gotten that far yet. Right. You know, we’ll work on that when we get there. I got some ideas. I’ll be fine. But, yeah, I just love it.

Lisa: Good. Cool.

Corinna: Edit so much of that out.

Lisa: I don’t think so. No, I don’t think that. We’ll see. Well, I mean, and I got a year on you, but I’m almost 44, and I felt the same way. I was like, always working in that corporate structure, working a lot of time for banks and corporate real estate and all this stuff. And I’m just like, I’m really good at it, but I do not care about it. And at a certain point in your life, it’s like, wait, why am I spending all my time, like, okay, money is nice, but why am I spending all my time doing something that I hate every day? I had quit my job with the idea of starting my own business. And what I was thinking I was going to do, I just couldn’t get excited about. So when you were thinking about starting and then I was like, wait a second. I think we could work really well together. Cause I think we have a really good, like, complimentary skill set and personalities.

Corinna: I would have never done this without you, truly.

Lisa: Well, same.

Corinna: I mean, but I would have never. I know what I’m not good at. You know, like, I know what I’m capable of being good at, but what really, just sometimes I’m just not. And you’re so good at that stuff. And, you know, and I know you just have such a good base background. Like I get so many compliments on our logo, and you literally. I was like, I want a wheel and a peach, and I want a flower on the peach there has to be a blossom. And you just took it and made, like, the cutest little thing and we get so many compliments.

Lisa: It was pretty literal. It was a pretty literal interpretation. It’s literally a peach with a flower and a wheel.

Corinna: You still, like, made. You know, you don’t give yourself enough credit. Cause I know you just say, it is. But you were like, okay, here’s seven options. Do you want? And within a week, if that. Four days.

Lisa: I’m having a good time.

Corinna: I still am. You know, like, obviously we’ve learned a lot about maintenance and stuff. And, I’m. You know, I have always tried to approach. Everything is very much a. You know, just take it as a lesson. Right. No losses only lessons.

Lisa: What were you most scared about coming into it?

Corinna: I just the unknown. And it still is a little bit of that. Right. You know, and now we’re at a point where we’re growing, which is great. So we have to, like, you know, the are we gonna do option? We have option A and we have option B. And I feel like I’m constant. Like, I’m at the eye doctor, and I’m like, a B. Oh, no. B looks better. Oh, no, wait, let me see A again. I don’t know. You know, so, like, it just a little bit of the unknown.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. That is hard figuring out. That’s definitely something. Well, I was worried about hurting our friendship, and that was my biggest fear. But now that we’re kind of into it and I think things are going well, I also agree is like, how do you grow in a sustainable way that keeps, it keeps you healthy and happy, and also it keeps the quality of what we do good. It keeps, like, you know, it’s really hard to say, like, because everybody’s like, grow, grow, why aren’t you doing more? Why aren’t you bigger already? Why don’t you have people working for you?

Corinna: Right. Yeah.

Lisa: I’m like, well, I don’t want to mess this up.

Corinna: Yeah. And I don’t. Right. And I’m, I’m a dreamer, man. I always have. You know, my dad, like, teases me. I live everything on a wing and a prayer, which I don’t know that that’s necessarily great, but, like, you know, I fell in love with this place, and I wanted to move here, and I made it happen. And so, like, I know in my core, if I, like, dig down deep enough, I can always get it done if I need to. And I. You know, I was worried about our friendship, too, but, like, I think once we got past the initial, like, how are we gonna structure it? Like, everything feels, you know, not to whatever, but like it just feels like we’ve gotten the business side of it very black and white, so there isn’t much confusion, not confusion, but, you know, I don’t know, I feel like we’ve taken out a lot of the areas that there could be tension, you know, so I’m excited.

Lisa: Same.

Corinna: What do you think a common misconception of pedicabs is?

Lisa: Oh, good one. I think it’s that, well, number one, it’s people who have been to New York and seen them and they’re just like, it’s really expensive. The people who drive them are, let me think of a polite word.

Corinna: Maniacal?

Lisa: Misfits?

Corinna: Feral?

Lisa: Maniacal misfits. Which I mean you are a little bit.

Corinna: I. I am, I call myself that, I tease all the time, that my mom’s like you were raised like you were feral.

Lisa: But maybe just a little shady. And I think that. I really do think because most of the time that you see a pedicab, it is in a place like New York and it’s kind of hustling. They’re kind of hustling you a little bit.

Corinna: No, absolutely. Yeah. No. So 100%. Yeah. The days where it’s just, you know, like festival times and you’re riding around just like, hey, what are you doing? Hey? You want get on the cab, I’ll give you a ride, you know. But even, even with that, like it’s very different than trying to get somebody who’s just walking down the street who, you know, probably isn’t really going that far and is used to walking, you know, or whatever, you know, I guess it is very touristy for New York. And I say New York only because that’s where I’ve ridden. But, you know, yeah, like we’ve met some really cool people that are from all over the place and maybe they ride in a big city, Denver or New Orleans. Like that’s where they’re based out of. But then they do a lot of like festivals and that’s, you know, like the festival scene is where, you know, it really is where a lot of pedicabs, you know, pedicabbers, like pedicab companies, I guess, make the bulk of their money. Most people aren’t as like locked into one location as we are.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. And when you say festivals, you mean like the big ones. I mean like, like Coachella and Bonaroo.

Corinna: Yep.

Lisa: Well. And I feel like that’s too why I, when I tell people about it or when we talk about it online or we kind of advertise it, I call it a pedicab tour company. Because I think the tour part is what you bring to it that’s different. And so you’re bringing like that kind of guided trip visit knowledge to the, to the whole experience. So it’s really not, it’s not just about transportation. That’s not where we bring the most value to people. It’s like the tour part of it. Tour guide.

Corinna: Yeah, no, I would agree with that. Because I’ve had people where I show up and they booked a wine tour or they booked a ride to dinner and you know, I pull up and I’m like hey. And they’re like oh, we had no idea it was like a rickshaw bike. And I’m like oh, well hop aboard, here we go. And I mean they loved it, it was fine. I think the term pedicab, you know, I don’t know because I always knew what it was, right? Like because the first time I ever saw it, I visually had a connection. Like it never occurred to me that it’s such a term. But I’ve had people, I always have to say rickshaw. If I say rickshaw a lot of times then they’ll understand what I’m. What I’m talking about. I just wondered if, if you got the same thing I did. Because that day when I pulled up there, I was like. It was funny. It was a moment. They were a cute couple.

Lisa: No, definitely in telling all my family’s in upstate New York. So like their experience is like going to the city, going shopping, so telling them what we’re doing, they’re like oh, okay, okay. All right.

Corinna: So what are you doing? Are you riding a bike? Let me get Lisa on a bike one of these days. But that is not.

Lisa: I don’t know about that one.

Corinna: I mean. Well, you know, just a little loop around the block. So then you can say you did it. And when somebody says, oh, do you ride the bike? You can be like, I did. I have.

Lisa: I did.

Corinna: I have.

Lisa: Once.

Corinna: Once or twice? So, upstate New York, what was your first job?

Lisa: My first job? Oh, if you don’t count babysitting.

Corinna: Yes. Let’s not count babysitting. I agree that that’s most of our first jobs.

Lisa: Yeah.

Corinna: How many of the babysitter club books did you read?

Lisa: Oh, like all of them.

Corinna: Okay.

Lisa: I loved them. And you know what? I always did. So even this is when I started babysitting when I was 12. This is a side note.

Corinna: I love it.

Lisa: you know me, I was always like, why can’t I be as good as they are?

Corinna: They bring board games and they have like a whole. But I also. So you grew up in a small town. I grew up in a small town. Like, I didn’t grow up in a neighborhood. Like, I luckily actually the kids that lived across the street who are now full-fledged adults. And it’s so weird to think that I babysat them. Those ones actually I didn’t even watch that much, but I had like a brother, sister. They were friends of my parents, but it was like far away. These girls live like in like suburbia where they were like, I’m gonna ride my bike over to Billy’s house.

Lisa: No, like, I lived in, grew up in the middle of the woods in a log cabin. And yeah, it would always be like driving.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: But. Or just doing like babysitting for the PTO at the school. And all the people came to PTO meetings would be. All their kids would be dumped in a room and I would.

Corinna: Oh my goodness.

Lisa: Like when I was 12.

Corinna: Oh, yeah, that’s a lot.

Lisa: And so that’s something about why I didn’t want to have kids. But anyway, my first actual job.

Corinna: Yes.

Lisa: Well, I think I was at the grocery store, but now I’m kind of like doubting myself. But I was a cashier at our local grocery store, which was like a half an hour away from our house still. And I loved it. It was so much fun because I loved everything about it, especially loved ringing up coupons and I loved bagging groceries.

Corinna: Lisa, that’s so fun. I don’t know that we’ve ever talked about.

Lisa: I don’t think we have.

Corinna: I mean, I worked on a babysitting and I worked on a farm. But like my first, like, other than the farm, was at a grocery store. Was at Acme. And I also, like. I don’t know that I loved the coupons. I liked the knowing the codes. You know, I’m such a nerdy girl.

Lisa: Oh yes, like the vegetable codes? The fruit codes?

Corinna: Like, I still now, when I don’t have to look like, if I can remember that green peppers is 4065. I, like, give myself a little high five. Bananas is the one I’ll never.

Lisa: 4011. I’ll never forget that one. That one’s always in there. And I got the pepper, but I think I forgot all the other ones so far.

Corinna: Yeah, those are pretty much because. Well now they all have the bar codes. I also used to remember people’s phone numbers. And I think I would be in so much trouble right now if I had to let. I mean, other than my own number. I don’t know. I know like, my parents and they got. They just got rid of our, like, our, the landline a few years ago. I was devastated. I was like, I don’t have nine, three two, tofu anymore. What? I have to remember all your numbers?

Lisa: That’s funny. yeah. So your first job was also at a grocery store?

Corinna: It also was at a grocery store. I was gonna say, like, what did you, like, learn from that other than, like, couponing is, can be prolific and profitable.

Lisa: Yeah. Just good math skills, I think. Honestly. Math skills. And also social interaction skills.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: Because I don’t necessarily think I had that. And I was. It’s like being forced to interact with adults. And a lot of them. I mean, some of them were a little bit, uh, uh, I don’t know how to say this right. There would be some characters. And learning how to politely deal with people was a huge thing that I took away from that. And also fitting things into bags.

Corinna: Yes.

Lisa: Not putting all the tin cans in one bag.

Corinna: Yes. It’s funny. I was gonna ask you one of your travel hacks, because I know that you are an incredible. Like, you know, we’ve talked about this. Like, I tell my tour groups, I don’t know if that Lisa realizes how much I talk about her to my people. Like, as soon as I, like, identify the planner of the group, I’m like, you are my Lisa, and everybody needs a Lisa.

Lisa: No, I mean, that’s just like, something from traveling so much for work. Well, and also we spent all that time living out of our vehicle for two and a half years. So for me it’s always like, what is the least amount of things you can get away with?

Corinna: Yes.

Lisa: And what’s the lightest you can travel? That’s when I feel the best, is when I have all the essentials and nothing extra.

Corinna: Do you think that you could in a, let’s say 30 liter bag? Right. That’s a pretty standard size. Well, let’s just say a standard carry on suitcase.

Lisa: Okay.

Corinna: Like carry on size. Not. Not checked bag size, carry on size. Do you think you could live out of that bag for…

Lisa: A week. Sorry.

Corinna: You think it could just be a week? I. Is that how long it is? I was gonna ask you if you thought you could live out of it for a full season.

Lisa: I mean, if I had access to a laundromat. Yes.

Corinna: Yeah. No, no. Right.

Lisa: But I know I can do a week actually, because that’s what, what I do, is I take that size bag and then I do like a backpack, like a personal item. And so I know I can do that in a week without repeating any clothes.

Corinna: Okay, not bad, not bad. How about hotel travel hacks? You’ve stayed in a lot of hotels.

Lisa: Oh, my gosh.

Corinna: Is there anything like you always pack for, like, if you’re going to the hotel other than just like.

Lisa: No. I usually honestly mess up hotel things because I swear I either don’t pack shampoo and they don’t have it, or I don’t pack conditioner, they don’t have it. Or I’ll pack one and they will have the other. Or they’ll have it in the shower and it’ll be broken and I will forget to test it until the morning when I’m already wet in the shower. So I feel like I actually kind of mess up hotel things.

Corinna: So only outdoorsy. Outdoorsy stuff you know every time.

Lisa: Yeah I’m good. With that.

Corinna: Perfect.

Lisa: I mean, I know exactly all the things to bring but like hotels, I just, I expect to have like a baseline level of stuff there and then it isn’t. The best hotel travel hack I ever learned from somebody else, though is, you know when you have the curtains and they don’t quite meet in the middle?

Corinna: Yes.

Lisa: And you get that stupid beam of light and it always is shining right in your eyeball. So you can take one of those hangers that has the two pinchers on the end.

Corinna: Oh, and fold it over. Yeah, I know what you’re talking about.

Lisa: Take the pinchers and pinch. Pinch the two curtains together and, like, close it up.

Corinna: Smart.

Lisa: So that was, like, one of those things that I learned, pretty early on. And, like, that made such a big difference because I don’t know what it is, but that light’s always in your eyeball.

Corinna: And it’s always right on your face. Yes, it is. Right here, directly across. Not here or here. Right here.

Lisa: And then I also. So here’s the other weird one is, you’ll see my light sensitivity. Another one of my old coworkers, you know, I’d be complaining about, like, the light that comes in under the door from the hallway. She’s like, oh, just take an extra towel or take your foot towel and roll it up and jam it in the crack. And she’s like, and bonus, if there’s a fire that patches one of the smoke entry points. I’m like, wow. Okay. So those are two of the things I actually always do in a hotel.

Corinna: I like it. See, I knew you would have something that I hadn’t thought of. I had seen the light thing. Actually, I think my mom used a binder clip on it one time.

Lisa: Yes. That works too.

Corinna: Yeah. but I like the towel thing. That’s also probably good for, like. I mean, I. I don’t know, especially as a woman, like, when traveling alone, safety is always the thing. And I know that they make a bunch of those little random things. You can, like, whatever. But I don’t travel enough for that to, like, have ever been, so. But, you know, you have a thing jammed under the door, and somebody tries to open it, it’s gonna take them a second longer.

Lisa: Yeah. That also brings up another weird thing that I do. I don’t think about it. These weird things I do because I haven’t traveled for work for a little while, which is a great, wonderful thing. Is because of that, I also. I thought about getting one of those lock things that locks when you’re inside. But then, like, I feel like there are ways around that too. So I always. I put two hangers on the doorknob. Because my thinking is if somebody turns the doorknob, especially if it’s one of those lever ones, they’ll fall on the floor and wake me up. Right. The two hangers will. And they’ll scare the person away.

Corinna: Yeah. Clearly, the hangers are gonna terrify them.

Lisa: So that’s my alarm.

Corinna: Yes. I like it. I like It, I mean, I would hope that the like chain, you know. Yeah, that’s funny.

Lisa: Okay. All right, we’re getting off on such a tangent here. These are the weird, like this is the overthinking that has always made me a really good project manager, if I may say so.

Corinna: Yes. No, you have handled this project beautifully. Me? A work in progress.

Lisa: No, stop it.

Corinna: And then who would you say or like personal or even public persona had the most influence on like your work ethic or mindset?

Lisa: Oh.

Corinna: I just say who?

Lisa: Oh that’s like a stumper. Hm. I don’t know, Corinna.

Corinna: That’s okay.

Lisa: I have probably, like teachers and think like teachers. Just the ones who really had their shit together. But if I think about like I, you know, growing up in a really small town, you don’t have a lot of people who are your direct role models. And I mean, you could say your parents and that’s obvious. But outside of your family. Yeah, I mean there just aren’t that many. Like if I think about the number of people who I came into contact with, my parents were both self employed and you know, so they didn’t necessarily have like customers and things like that. So, who are you really interacting with?

Corinna: I would think though that’s probably where you get. My parents also self-employed for the most part, my dad was in the union for years, but he always had, you know, he’s always been a musician on the side and does studio, so a business there. But I, I think that probably drives your work. Like I’ve always worked, right. And I’ve always, you know, I’ve always found a lot of value in being a hard worker because when you’re a parent, you know, maybe that’s where it comes from. Like I know there was a lady that I worked for at my very first job at that grocery store. She was mean, she was so tough. But if you did your job right, she didn’t have anything to say. And that’s like, I just remember, like, just do your job, you know, like, like I’m not intimidated by too many people. But you know as a 14 year old, 15 year old girl that was a whole different story and man Judy was rough. But I did my job and she never had you know she. I never had any issues. I left there and went to a bank like as soon as I could drive over the state line, you know 30 minutes away to the home of banking in Delaware. But yeah, you know, I worked for her for a couple years and I arguably like have adopted a little bit of that. But like I am tough. Like I’ve managed people and I expect you know, like if I know what you can do. I was never I hope as mean as like she could just be like just mean. But I think it was also a different time where you could just make nasty comments to people. Stupid, just mean, what is very much bullying comments that would not be acceptable in 2025 but in 1994 it was a whole different world.

Lisa: That’s how they whipped us into shape.

Corinna: That’s right.

Lisa: This is the first time I didn’t put together a question list ever.

Corinna: See, I was so nervous. I wouldn’t like I would just be here like oh why did you decide to do this?

Lisa: Well, that’s how I feel right now. Because that was my first question.

Corinna: Well, I mean. Right, but that was a good first question.

Lisa: Well, let me ask you one.

Corinna: Okay.

Lisa: So I’m curious what you thought about me the first time we met. I believe it was the third week that I was even living here and we went to a bike ride and I think it was the second bike ride that I went to. I don’t remember if I saw you or met you in the first one, but on the second one you pulled up alongside me when we were biking in front of like the storage units. I remember exactly where we were.

Corinna: I do too.

Lisa: And you were like, hey, have you ever done the Kokopelli Trail? And I’m like uh, no. What’s your name? And I just like. I love that you. And this is one of the things I like so much about meeting people here. People don’t usually start with what do you do? You know, which is one of the questions where I’m like, when people ask me first, what do I do? I immediately like shrink up. Or before when I didn’t like what I was doing.

Corinna: Right.

Lisa: You know, I don’t want to talk about that. I kind of like would pull in and just kind of start on a negative.

Corinna: Because that’s not how you identify.

Lisa: Exactly. That’s not how identify. It’s like, that’s how I make money. Like this is how I make a living. But it is not necessarily like the first thing I want to talk about with somebody. So. So many people here start with, what do you do for fun? Or what did you do this weekend? Or what trips do you have coming up?

Corinna: Have you been on the river?

Lisa: Exactly. So that was kind of my first intro to like how do people in Palisade welcome other people? And it’s like, hey, have you gone on this crazy adventure that’s like a five day unsupported mountain bike ride?

Corinna: No, we got Paully Walnuts. He’ll support us.

Lisa: I. I’m like, no, but I’m really impressed that you think I could do that.

Corinna: Absolutely. Yeah. For sure. I remember it too. And I’m pretty sure, it’s funny because I think I have been talking to Paul. Like I like, like I might have pulled up next to you. But I, you know, like, in the way that we were riding, I feel like I was like, pointing like, some random history thing out to Paul. Right.

Lisa: As you do.

Corinna: Probably, as I do, as I am wont to do. And then I probably because I had just, you know, I’m sure I had. I think about the Kokopelli Trail all of the time. I thought about it this morning. I, still want to do it. I still think we can do this I don’t think that we have to worry about doing it unsupported. Yeah, that’s.

Corinna: We’ll talk about this later.

Lisa: Okay.

Corinna: We’re doing the Kokopelli Trail, to be updated, but we can do it. Anyway. But I do remember that it was on that. That stretch of road. So fast forward, what. So then three or four rides later, it’s Halloween ride and Paul is a hot dog. And. And you were like, he’s always hot dog. It’s just like his thing. He’s always a hot dog. And like, like, it was the most normal thing in the world. Like, I mean, you said it very, like, cheeky, you know, and it’s cute. And it was really cute then. It still is adorable.

Lisa: He’s still a hot dog. Three years later.

Corinna: But you just. The way you said it, I was like, I love this girl. Like, of course, he’s just a hot dog. And, you know, like, it’s fun. I, you know, I love this town for so many reasons, but the people that it draws in, I think all have a very similar mentality. I think a lot of us love learning, you know, like, so moving to a new area is really cool. Especially when it’s an area that has so many different wonderful little vibrant parts of it that like, you can learn. You know, you could spend a, I don’t know, like there’s. You could be a peach expert and not know anything about nectarines or like, then you got there you about apricots or, you know, like, I mean they’re all in the same stone family, but like, I know more about stone fruit the last five years. And it’s incredible. Like, I grew up. Not like I didn’t grow up around, you know, but they farmed corn across the street. I grew up in a small town. This is a small town. It’s, you know, it’s a very different feel because of, it’s not two hours from New York City, but it’s also like so many things about it are the same. And like, I love that Palisade for the most part, I feel like really tries to, you know, the people who live here really care about maintaining that really charming. People tell me all the time like, this is like Hallmark. And I’m like, I know yeah. Don’t tell anybody.

Lisa: I know and that’s the weird balance too with having a business that is based around bringing people in. And same way. I don’t want my trails to get too crowded either.

Corinna: Yes, right. I think I’m always very honest with people. They’re like, this is amazing. I want to move here. I’m like, yeah, it’ll do that to you. And they’re like, so. And I’m like, yeah, I’ll do that to you. You know, like. And if they do phenomenal, you know, but like, the heat is not. It can be and, you know, I didn’t grow up in wildfire area, and, you know, like, this is the second fire we’ve had that’s gotten this close in the time that I’ve lived here.

Lisa: Yeah. You know, that’s a tough thing about living out here, for sure. And, like, we have been lucky the last few years that we haven’t had any fires for, like, five years.

Corinna: yeah, it’s since 2020.

Lisa: Right. Since 2020.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: The big, big one. Yeah. So we’ve been lucky. And every summer I’ve been like, phew. We got through it.

Corinna: Made it through another one. Yeah.

Lisa: So, yeah, this one. It’s our time. There are always downsides to anywhere you are, and I think that’s a thing that’s sure to set you up for disappointment. If you came in here thinking it actually is like a Hallmark community.

Corinna: Yes.

Lisa: Or a Hallmark card. Like, there are always gonna be things about a place that are less than positive.

Corinna: Yeah. Right. I mean, this is an expensive area. It’s not getting any cheaper. I get it. It’s, if you work hard, you deserve to be able to live where, and at the same time, my industry that I did back east just doesn’t exist here.

Lisa: Right.

Corinna: And it was, I moved here before working at home was such a huge thing. So it was like, now I’m just gonna make the best of it and try to, long term. I still don’t own a home Palisade. And if that ever happens.

Lisa: Yeah.

Corinna: I’m not sure, at this point, but, you know, I still love it.

Lisa: Yeah.

Corinna: It’s an amazing place. I think we both have a pretty big love of Palisade history. I like to tell the real cutesy kind of stories. Not that I don’t know more of them but. I have to have. I like to call them like the 10 cent stories, like they like, if I was somebody, if I was back in the day, that’s the story that I’d be like hawking to the top of the. If I was old paper boy. I don’t know. But anyway, but if you could interview a Palisade historical figure. Have you ever thought of this?

Lisa: Yeah, I feel like all. I mean, I can think of some ideas.

Corinna: Right. I mean, you know enough about Palisade history. Like who would you interview from the early days? Like pre 1930, 1940.

Lisa: Well, that takes my. I was going to a say Wayne Aspinall, but that takes that out.

Corinna: Oh yeah. No, because, when he, 50 something.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. And he seems like. I mean honestly, I probably would personally like dislike him, but I think he seems like such a like a divisive, important character for Palisade.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: And I say that because he was known to be kind of a jerk.

Corinna: I have heard stories of that. You know, as you know, I like to read the old Tribunes.

Lisa: But then you wonder, you’re like how much of that was really true. So I think that would be really interesting. Plus, he was probably the most famous resident of Palisade ever of all time, so. But if I were to go back before that and say like some of the first residents of town about what life was like here, before they even knew what they could grow here or you know, how did, how did they actually. How did it actually work?

Corinna: Like how did they end up.

Lisa: Yeah. And did they. Were they here just for survival reasons or did they actually like it here, you know?

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: That would be very interesting.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: How about you?

Corinna: I want to talk to the first member of the Priscilla Walker family. Priscilla is such an amazing strong woman. I would love to see the people that raised her. And also this is like one of my fun facts, fun fact. The Wine Valley Inn on the corner there at First and Elberta. Carmine, whose last name always escapes me, was one of the first. I think he’s the guy that built it. But one of the. I’m pretty sure it’s the guy that built it or he lived there very, very early on, was responsible for a part of the radiator on the Model T Ford. So like, had he not invented this radiator component there, the Model T Ford would not have been able to run. Like, they wouldn’t have been able to cool the engine, you know. There’s a couple, like, the peach picking baskets and stuff like that are like, cool, but that’s like very Palisade cool. Like, you know, how would these guys do this if they didn’t have these, like the stilts? Like, how would they have done it? But yeah, the Model T Ford guy. you know, and they built such a. Like their house is such a cool. Like they really, they really went there. It’s a really style, you know, it’s really pretty. Pretty property.

You know, this area has a very interesting history. I don’t know, I’ve always, probably because I, I don’t know, my grandfather watched a lot of westerns, you know, like, I’ve always, always like the western culture. And maybe because I was east coast kid, I don’t know, maybe western kids that grew up in the west dream of New York City. I didn’t dream of New York City. Well, I did for a little while, but I got over it real fast. Real fast. I got over that one.

To be fair. You know what, if I’m being honest and very. A little bit heavier than podcast demands. 9/11 probably helped me get over New York City, you know, because I was 21 when that happened and I still wanted to move there, like for a little while after. That’s when I worked at, like, I worked at an investment firm, in Wilmington, Delaware, and you know, Morgan Stanley, they have a huge New York presence. They’d also lost a ton of people in the World Trade Center. So. Yeah, I don’t know if that’s what it was or, you know, it’s fun when you’re in your early 20s to think about living in the big city. I’ve always been a small town girl, so maybe that’s why, like, that dream quickly was like. No, no, no.

Lisa: Yeah, no, I definitely had that dream too. And even after, because I was 20 then I was still in college and.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: Still wanted to move to New York.

Lisa: It didn’t. I don’t think it really. It was really fun being in a city in my 20s in Chicago. It was really fun. Like, I would never change that. But I also definitely aged out of it.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: And I think part of it is just like people, your friends, they meet other people, they have families, they move away. And then you’re always starting to like try to make new friends and over and over. And at one point I just realized this how it’s always gonna go. And, yeah, it just gets exhausting. Plus there’s no nature or anything like that. So it took me longer. It actually took me until two years ago until I finally let go of that regret of never having moved to New York City after college.

Corinna: Interesting.

Lisa: When I had that job there. And I just spent so much time there, and I’m like this is a very hard place to live.

Corinna: Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa: This would be really difficult and unpleasant.

Corinna: Yes.

Lisa: So it’s a good place to be in your 20s.

Corinna: Yeah. That’s cool. I love this little, this little swatch of land, but, yeah, I think maybe it’s. It is the, you know, what you don’t grow up with. I grew up in the middle of the woods like you did, but I also could see it. So it’s, you know, this I couldn’t see.

Lisa: Yeah.

Corinna: You know, like, I had family and we visited out here every once in a while. I actually lived out in Reno when I was a little little kid. So, like, I had been out here, but not, like. I don’t know.

Lisa: Yeah, not as an adult.

Corinna: Not as an adult. And, you know, like, I still have. I still have daydreams that involve Western theme things, you know, I just. I don’t know. Cut all that.

Lisa: Yeah.

Corinna: You know, it’s just. I love it here.

Lisa: Me, too. Lately I’ve met. At the bike rides, I’ve met a bunch of people who have just moved here. I’ve met four different couples who have just moved here in the last few weeks.

Corinna: That’s awesome.

Lisa: I’m like, partly. I know some of the old timers. I don’t know if I’ll ever get like this. Maybe I will someday, are like, don’t let any new people in. But I think part of what keeps living here interesting is that new people do keep coming, and they keep bringing their new ideas, and they keep bringing, like, new experiences and things with them. So I love meeting the new people who keep moving in.

Corinna: I do, too. I do, too. And I think there’s has to be a healthy. You know, there’s enough people that have decided that they’re getting older, they don’t want to maintain a bigger property or families get bigger and want more space. Like, a lot of the houses in Palisade aren’t, they’re not huge houses. Like these are, not that all of them are. There’s certainly the option for bigger homes but, like, I think that that is an important part of a healthy community is, it’s just gonna happen.

Lisa: Yeah.

Corinna: People get different jobs and have to move away.

Lisa: Or they grew up here and they hated it and they just could not wait to move to the middle of nowhere in upstate New York.

Corinna: Yes. Happens so frequently. I have two, like, fun questions left. I’m gonna ask you both of them first so that you have time to think about the first one. How about that?

Lisa: Okay.

Corinna: All right. If you had to pick a theme song for Peachy Pedicab, what would it be?

Lisa: Right.

Corinna: So there’s one. You can think about that. But what trivia topic? So here we are. Final Jeopardy. what trivia topic would you risk it all on? What obscure…

Lisa: Okay, so first of all, I would never risk it all on anything because of, I’m too risk averse. So I don’t know how good of a business partner that’s gonna make me long term.

Corinna: But no, this is why. Because I’ll risk everything all the time. This is why I need Lisa, y’all. Why I need her.

Lisa: I doubt my knowledge on things, so I would risk a large majority of my winnings, which I assume would be ginormous.

Corinna: Yes, of course.

Lisa: on like geography. I mean, I’m just like, I know a. I’m like a weird geography nerd.

Corinna: Yes.

Lisa: So if that came up, I’d be like, yeah! And then it would probably be something totally obscure I’d never heard of before.

Corinna: No, no. I would bet my money if you were betting yours on geography, if that was your topic. I really. She’s got this. If it was like Utah canyon identification, I’d be like $1 million.

Lisa: Yeah. Anything western and anything kind of related to like natural history in the west, I feel. I would feel pretty good about. Or world geography or like, Russian literature.

Corinna: Yes. Love it.

Lisa: I also could know. Yeah. How about you?

Corinna: I, think not Russian literature, but if you ask me anything about the Romanov family, I could probably. That particular topic I’ve always been fascinated by. I have probably half a dozen books on my shelf right now. Or like 3rd gen Toyota 4 runners or most Toyota 4 wheel drive vehicles. I think I could probably, I could probably make us some money if I was betting on my knowledge base on those.

When people ask me what I’m gonna do in the wintertime, I’m like, I haven’t gotten that far yet. Because it’s also why I’m not working another job whilst trying to start a pedicab company because I am. I put everything into it all the time and I don’t want, you know, like I’m just gonna put everything I have into it right now and then we’ll go from there. But that applies. I don’t know how to do anything halfway or I try not to. If I really love it, then I want to know everything about it. My people, my vehicles, you know, whatever, whatever the topic may be, you know, like I love the river. So I’m gonna find out like, oh, we’re going on the river. Let me get this book. I’m gonna read this whole thing backwards and forward nine times. Still maybe flip on a class two. It’s okay, everybody survived rig to flip. We ain’t lose nothing but some sunglasses.

Lisa: It was a very hard class two. It was deceptively hard.

Corinna: It was, you know, I’ve given myself a lot of grace on that. It was tough and I was not rigged out properly and that was my fault. It was. But we got it all figured out. I think that probably that moment was a pretty big catalyst just in general for me. Like once I made it through that, you know, I almost hated what I loved the most. And so like being able to like take a step back and like regroup when I typically am pretty critical of myself was really, like it was a big moment for me to know that I had the ability to like keep going even when stuff gets like crazy hard.

Lisa: Yeah. And that’s a really good example of that because like you have to keep going. You have to force yourself to.

Corinna: There is no option.

Lisa: Keep going and yeah, there’s nothing else. Yeah, that was a really good trip. That was a great learning experience.

Corinna: That was an incredible trip. No, that was definitely a life changing trip.

Corinna: I still think about that a lot.

Lisa: Yeah, I do too. Because I was really scared going into it and I think we did some pretty scary stuff and just seeing that, like it can be okay. Whenever you go through something and you’re like the worst case thing happens and, and it’s okay, you know, it’s like okay.

Corinna: Yeah, like take a deep breath. Right. And I, you know, I am often a little impulsive, let’s say, so like you know, knowing that like I, I could force myself to like calm down like I had to give myself a minute. I needed to get there. But, like, knowing that I could, like, flip my mindset the opposite way, like, I was capable of that, that was really, like. That was a big moment. Yeah, yeah, that was. It was great. No, it was a great trip. And like, as soon as we started talking about geography, I was like, how many panels do you think you’ve seen? How many petroglyph panels?

Lisa: Oh my God. Like, a lot.

Corinna: Like, give me over/under over a hundred.

Lisa: Oh, yeah.

Corinna: Over 200?

Lisa: Umm.

Corinna: You think it’s somewhere in between them?

Lisa: Yeah. Well then. And I’m saying what’s a panel. I’m being all pedantic. A lot. I really love petroglyphs.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: And I like. I just really love them a lot. I mean, I love art. And so it’s just a continuation of like, I love any way that people express themselves. Well, music, art, any. Any way people express themselves that is like, not quote, unquote, necessary to, like, our daily existence is fascinating. And I love that it’s always been something that humans have done and cared about. And I also love the mystery. Like, we’ll never know why exactly they did this stuff or what they mean. And you can only just kind of speculate.

Corinna: And you can go real far on the speculations. And I. That’s so fun. Like, yeah, we’ve stood around and stared at a panel and made up a story and it’s great. Like, it’s such an incredible thing to be able to do from however many centuries later. Yeah, I think it’s really cool.

Lisa: And I don’t want to give too much away because I don’t like to give away my places. But I do think one nearby area that’s super underrated, that would actually be really good for more people to know about is Nine Mile Canyon. And it’s like a two and a half hour drive from the Grand Valley. And it is the best and the most rock art I’ve seen in my entire life. It’s in Utah. It’s southwest of Vernal. And it’s just so under the radar. There’s not a lot of information out there about it. And partly is because it kind of shares the land with like, an oil and gas lease. And so that’s the situation where I feel like I want more people going there to see the history so that it isn’t like, underrated or under-visited. You know, it’s not under counted.

Corinna: I love that.

Lisa: But it’s also some of the best stuff I’ve seen.

Corinna: It’s funny because I had thought of asking you where one of your favorite places is, but I also know that we were. If you’re truly an adventurer and you’re going out and finding these things and like, it’s not fair, you know, like, I don’t want to like knock people for the insta. Like, I’ve certainly found amazing places because of Instagram. But at the same time, like, I’ve also, I’ll never forget the first time I stopped to the Glade Park store and she was like, go up there, turn on nine and something something and go over two cattle guards. And I was like, right. That’s how we’re giving directions, and I mean I give directions the same way. But I wanted to ask you, but then I didn’t want to you to feel like, obligated to give away one of your secrets.

Lisa: Other things I want give away. It’s like, I’ll tell. I’ll show people things like where some of my favorite cacti live.

Corinna: Yes.

Lisa: And you know, I’ll tell people things if they’re gonna go there. But it’s like like natural hot springs, like really cool petroglyph panels that are hard to get to. Like cool rock formations and like part of the fun of those and the joy of those is like finding it and the adventure and the word of mouth. So yeah, I’ll just say Nine Mile Canyon though because you can drive right out to it and I feel like it just needs more people to go see like how spectacular it is.

Corinna: Absolutely.

Lisa: So anyway, love it. How about you. Do you have a thing like that that you’re just like, natural history wise you seek out?

Corinna: I also, I. I like rocks.

Lisa: I also love rocks and I love dirt. I like dirt that has different colors.

Corinna: Yes, yes, we’ve talked about this. You know, this is one of the things we’ve, like Lisa and I want to ask questions, but we know so much. Lisa and I both love green. like the cool light green that comes from like the coppery dirt. There’s a lot of it like out by the Cisco when you take out, after Ruby Horsethief that whole. There’s like a whole wall of it there that’s really cool. and you know, we’ve done enough adventuring that we’ve seen some really cool stuff together. Lots of really cool panels. Not enough. We could do lots more. I want us to do lots more. But I mean at this point we have now seen you know there’s some incredible hot springs that we’ve hit on the sides of rivers that you know, got to be on the river to do it.

Lisa: Yeah, those are some of the places I feel like that’s the most special. Like this is so cool that we get to do this stuff.

Corinna: Yeah. There’s truly the moments that I look back on like I can’t believe I live this life.

Lisa: OK what’s your. Oh Sorry.

Corinna: You know, go ahead.

Lisa: I get too excited. I’m too excited to know, what’s your favorite rock?

Corinna: I really like. Not that I’ve ever found one in the wild but Colorado’s our state rock like is the Rhodochrosite. It’s this really cool. It’s like a, it’s rose quartz. It’s the gemmy kind of if you took rose quartz and made it little more gemmy. I believe that’s Rhodochrosite. Like they’re all in the same family.

Lisa: Like that.

Corinna: Yes, that’s it.

Lisa: Oh that’s gorgeous.

Corinna: Does it say it’s like the Colorado State Mineral or something. One of my favorite spots, and I’m not giving away any secrets, is, like, Glade Park potholes. They’re kind of a pain in the butt to get to. That road is so washboarded out. But, it’s on a hot, hot day, man. They’re just incredible. Especially if it’s low water, because you can just kind of hang in the pool at the bottom. But my. One of my favorite parts of them is to get to them, you follow a path of rose quartz. Like, there’s, like, literally a rose quartz vein that, you know, goes from, like, the footpath. And you’re like, where do I go? Oh, do do do do. And you just follow this rose quartz path. And I’ve always thought that was really cool.

Lisa: This sounds amazing. I don’t know about this place.

Corinna: You haven’t been to Glade Park potholes? What are you doing this afternoon? Let’s go. Where’s Paul? Let’s go.

Lisa: He’s working.

Corinna: Oh. So Glade Park is, it’s the Little Dolores Creek. So it runs, you know, up on Glade Park. but it has, like, a little pool at the top, and then it drops down, and there are two exceptionally deep pools. I don’t know how deep they are. People cliff jump into them. It’s not very safe. Search and rescue has most assuredly gone out there more times than they would probably like to because, you know, I love those folks. I think we rescued a dog out of there once while I was on the team. But, the pools are, like, that heavy, deep, like quarry water is the best way I can think of describing it as a kid that grew up back east near quarries,

Lisa: like mystery water.

Corinna: Mystery hole. Yeah. There’s literally a place at county park closest to where I grew up that we called the mystery hole. And they did not. They pulled a whole bunch of, like, cars out of it that had been dumped and, you know, they finally, like, put a fence up, but not until like, maybe the last 15 years. But yeah, it was literally called the mystery hole. That’s hilarious.

Lisa: I feel like those are one of the things, like quicksand that loomed large, as like the most terrifying places in my childhood.

Corinna: Yeah. And then I moved out here and found quicksand.

Lisa: Yeah, right. I know that was wild. But no, like, the pits at, quarries were one of the places that were just like, if you go close to it, you’re basically just gonna die. Like, I feel like that was what we were told growing up.

Corinna: Yes. In the same way that I, like, warn my son about mine shafts.

Lisa: Good point. Lisa: But Glade Park potholes. I did not even know about that place. I’m really excited to check it out.

Corinna: We’re gonna go for a ride. You’re driving. Not gonna be today.

Lisa: Yeah, let’s go on a clear day.

Corinna: We’ll go on a clear day.

Lisa: Next clear day.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: So the song, I mean, first of all, I believe you told me that someone has already written a song for us.

Corinna: We do have a custom-ish, courtesy of one Dave Smith, to the tune of the Philadelphia Eagles fight song. We do have a Peachy Pedicab theme song that maybe, maybe one of our musical friends will record for me.

Lisa: Maybe we can get Mr. Garry Franklin to record it.

Corinna: Oh, You know, I feel like if I pout enough at some of them, one of them will do it. Geoff. Clayton. Garry.

Lisa: It would d be interesting to hear everybody’s different version of it. They’d be stylistically very different.

Corinna: That’s true. I like this idea. I don’t hate this idea. We’ll see what we could do for that. It’s a very easy song to remember, but yeah.

Lisa: Okay. Well, it.

Corinna: Other than that particular.

Lisa: I mean, I guess I just think about what do you play the most and, you know, you play the Queen song. I want to ride my bicycle. Or Bicycle Race. Right.

Corinna: Yes. Bicycle Race is the official title.

Lisa: Queen, Bicycle Race. Just because you play that song the most. So I think of it.

Corinna: I do.

Lisa: I want to ride my bike. Yeah, right. Like, you have. That kind of sums it up.

Corinna: I think that’s a good one. Yeah. I mean, I’ve thought of this and there’s like. It’s funny because I think of lines, not necessarily songs or like, you know, I feel like every season there’s like one particular song that I just love. I fall in love with, and I play the hell out of it because it’s great and I can sing it and, you know, I’m. I love music. You know, we like. You know, we’ve had a lot of fun nights of karaoke at the Liv.

Lisa: No, I’m retired now. That’s a whole other story.

Corinna: I know. I haven’t. Haven’t. I haven’t. I haven’t.

Lisa: We referred to that last time. And it’s still will not be told.

Corinna: We still haven’t done it. I know. Yeah, it’s. It’s still in the past. Yeah, like, I have these, like, little theme songs for the year. Like this year, there’s that Bruno Mars. I don’t even know if it’s apartment or apt. All I know is that, like, during the chorus, it’s like, I’m on my way. I like, yeah, that’s me. I’m on my way. But like, Lil Boo Thang was one a couple years ago. It’s still one of my best. Like, pedicab moments, memories, I guess, or moments. Me and Aaryn Russell, who’s great guy, you know, we’re riding back. We had just dropped people off at, probably basecamp. I’m pretty sure it was basecamp. Maybe an Airbnb out there. But I had Lil Boo Thang and we were like, riding back side by side on North River Road, and it’s late and we had had a long weekend, but it was like, finally it cooled off, it was dark and we were just jamming out. It was great. It was hilarious. I still, like. I don’t ever still don’t hear that song without thinking of that particular moment. It was great. It’s a good one. So that. And then, you know, like a whole bunch of, like, Beyonce, girls we run this, girl power inspired songs.

Lisa: Yes. These are all good.

Corinna: But.

Lisa: Yeah, love it.

Corinna: All right

Lisa: Well, I guess, before we wrap up, let me think about. Usually I think about what closing question I want to do. And so look at me being real professional. This time next year. So next July.

Corinna: Yeah.

Lisa: What do you think you’re gonna look back and say about the year?

Corinna: I hope I continue to be proud of what we’ve accomplished. I think we’re doing really good. Like, I’m trying not to push it and expect too much of us and myself and know that we have limitations, but that the room for growth is there and that we’re both, we have, I think, a pretty solid view of where we want it to go eventually, I hope. I hope that I don’t look back and regret not. That’s a tough question Lis.

Lisa: I don’t know if I have a good answer to it. I would say I want to look back and be like, damn, we did that. This is.

Corinna: Yeah, like, right. I think we’re doing really good. Like, we’ve had. I have a call I have to return right now. I got a message right at the beginning of our talk, so I feel like we’re on the right track. Our hearts are in the right place. I want to do a good job. You know what I mean? Like, I think both of us are hard enough workers, just, like, you know, I think. I don’t know. I trust you, and I feel like we can absolutely, like, be successful. So I just. Yeah.

Lisa: Same. Yeah. You’re awesome at what you do.

Corinna: As you are

Lisa: And I just want you to stay happy.

Corinna: I’m good.

Lisa: On that note.

Corinna: On that note.

Lisa: Thank you so much for talking with me. And also, I am really excited just to keep working with you and just keep killing it.

Corinna: Me too.

Lisa: Yeah.

Corinna: Thanks for time. I appreciate you too.

Lisa: I appreciate you, too.

Corinna: You’re very peachy.

Lisa: Stay peachy.

Corinna: That’s right.

Lisa: Until next time, stay peachy.

Find out more about Peachy Pedicab at peachypedicab.com or email us at peachypedicab(at)gmail.com.

The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend by Geoff Roper.

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.

Scott High of Colterris joins me to talk about an exciting new space opening soon in Palisade: Colterris Collections. On June 23^rd, Colterris Collections will open their exhibit space, housing over 16,000 pieces of wine memorabilia accompanied by fascinating stories from the world of wine. Join us to hear a few of those stories, along with the story of how Colterris came to be in Palisade!

Visit Colterris Collections at 3708 G Road or colterris.com/colterris-collections

Theme Music: Riverbend by Geoff Roper    

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Transcript:

Welcome to the Postcards From Palisade Podcast. I’m Lisa McNamara. Palisade is most famous for its peaches, but there’s so much more happening in our little town. Join me as I chat with our community members to hear about how they are making Palisade a great place to live and visit.

Today, Scott High of Colterris joins me to talk about an exciting new space opening soon in Palisade: Colterris Collections. The Collections location has been open as a tasting room for a couple years, but on June 23^rd, the name will be fully recognized with the opening of a space housing over 16,000 pieces of wine memorabilia.

Scott and I chat about how he got started with collecting and he shares the fascinating stories of just a few of his favorite objects in the collection. Colterris is Colorado’s largest fully Estate Grown winery, so we also chat about how Scott and his wife Theresa got into winemaking, what’s changed in the decades since they got started, and what originally brought them to Palisade.

Join us for some wild stories from the wide world of wine, on today’s Postcard from Palisade.

Lisa: I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me.

Scott: Oh, my pleasure.

Lisa: And especially the pre-meeting, too. I thought that was really helpful just to see what you have going on here and kind of get the thoughts together. So thank you so much for your time.

Scott: Sure. Your enthusiasm gets me excited.

Lisa: Good. You should be excited. This is a really cool thing.

Scott: Yeah, I think so too.

Lisa: So if you could just introduce yourself and we can start there.

Scott: Okay. Well, that’s easy to do. My name is Scott High. And I grew up in Denver, Colorado. Born and raised there. Love living in Palisade.

Lisa: So we’re recording right now at Colterris Collections at 3708 G Road. And the main thing I want to talk to you about was the or is the new collection. But, first, let’s just give people a visual of this amazing room we’re sitting in, which is also new. so tell me about this room and what kind of events you’re going to host here.

Scott: Well, when we purchased the facility, we saw a potential for this room. It has a lot of nice lighting to it and it’s just the right size for a small, intimate venue for winemaker dinners, guest chef dinners, culinary student dinners, food and wine pairing events, wine educational seminars. There’s a lot of things we can do in here. The Colterris tasting room is, we added this on when we purchased the facility, and it’s just the right size for a group of people. We can seat 34 people. And one of the nice things about this room is everybody has a view of the chef working. And if the chef wants to discuss a course or something, he has everyone’s attention. He or she can visit with the people as he’s preparing things, a winemaker can stand up in front of him and talk to the entire group. No one has their back to the venue, which is really good. There’s a presentation area that everybody feels comfortable seeing it, seeing what’s going on, listening to the winemaker or someone giving a little talk. And it’s really nice. We did it in leather. The center table that seats 18 people is solid oak and it was made the 1950s, so it’s about 75 years old. And it was a conference table at the First National Bank Building of Denver in the 50s and 60s. So it’s really a cool, old table.

Lisa: Very cool. It looks beautiful.

Scott: And so everybody has a community style seating event there.

Lisa: So you call it the Tastevin Room. What is a tastevin?

Scott: So yeah, yeah. The Tastevin Room. Tastevin is something that I learned about at a fairly early age. And tastevins really developed in the 15^th and 16^th centuries. And wine merchants and winemakers would have to go down in these deep dark caves with no electricity. And they had to have a method to check out the color and the clarity of wine. And so they had these shiny little bright objects that would reflect candlelight very well. And tastevins were used for four or five hundred years until electricity came around and they don’t need to do that anymore. But you could carry one in your pocket. If you were in a carriage or on horseback, you wouldn’t bust. And you got familiar with your own personal tastevin. So it became a professional tool for someone in the wine trade. It was a very important thing. And we have about on 300 of them on display in the Colterris Collections and some stories to go with them.

Lisa: Wow. So that’s a good kind of intro to shift over to talking about the Collection. So that’s in the room next door to where we’re sitting right now. And you graciously gave me a little preview tour of it a couple weeks ago. And when we met you were very, very adamant that it’s a collection and not a museum. So I thought that was really interesting. What’s the significance of that distinction?

Scott: Well, when I started collecting these objects years ago, we weren’t really thinking about a museum. But they just. It took on a life of its own and people seemed to enjoy looking at these objects. So when I talked to my wife Theresa about starting this idea, I used the word museum quite a bit. And there was some reluctance on her part to use the word museum. And we discussed it and I think she’s absolutely right. For me, there’s a lot of positive connotations in the word museum. I think it as being place of education, a cultural. How should I say that? Where you have cultural appreciation and it preserves historical objects. It’s a connection to the past. So I like going to museums. Some people do, some people don’t necessarily.

But I think nowadays there’s a negative connotation to the word museum for some people. And sometimes and I think that connection or that connotation for the word museum, sometimes people think of museums as being too formal. They’ll think of museums as being stuffy, antiquated, you know, so outdated sort of feelings. And I don’t think everybody likes to go to museums. They think of it as a drudgery. Or sometimes it reminds them of having to go on an excursion when they were in elementary or junior high school. And they would have to get on a yellow school bus and then get off and stand in single file. And the teacher told them to be quiet until they went into the museum. And they had to not ask questions in the museum and they had to listen and pay attention and be attentive to the person who was gonna guide them through a museum.

So nowadays, I think at least some generations, that’s what their feeling about a museum is. So we wanted to call it the Collections. And I kind of got that idea because of the archives at the Vatican Collections. And there’s a beautiful art gallery in Napa Valley called the Collections. And so it’s a word that, we thought made sense. And so the Colterris Collections, it’s really just a private collection of our objects that I’ve created and collected over 50 years. And so I just don’t want to use something that’s going to be negative. I think when people come to Palisade and they’re on vacation, they might not be expecting to find a wine museum. So, it’s. We’re treading new water here a little bit with this.

Lisa: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Museum stuffy, old, and it definitely is not that it’s gorgeous. So how did you get into collecting? What was the first thing you found and what made you just keep going?

Scott: Well, when I turned 16, I got my driver’s license and I bought a $400 Chevrolet Biscayne, which was my first car. I was looking for any excuse to go driving around. I wanted to go visit friends. I wanted to run to the grocery store for my mother. I wanted anything I could do to get in my car and have this freedom that a driver’s license allowed at the time. So one day I happened to go down to an area in Denver called Antique Row on South Broadway. And I was perusing through an antique store and this little corkscrew caught my eye in a case. And one thing led to another, and so I worked up enough money to go buy that corkscrew. And I have it on display here in the museum.

But what happened when I obtained that corkscrew is I started doing some research about corkscrews. And one of the most interesting things I found out was before the invention of the crown cap and the screw cap and modern bottle making techniques where they were all manufactured the same size, so screw caps worked. Everything that was consumable of a liquid form had a cork in it. It was finished with a cork. So corkscrews were a lot more prevalent in society then than they are now. So women would have to carry a corkscrew in their vanity case to open their perfume bottles. And people would have to have little corkscrews in their pocket all the time if they were gonna have any tonics or medicines. And beer had corks in it and wine certainly had corks in it and spirits and everything else.

So corkscrews were something that everybody used at the time. And a lot of people in the 19th century decided they were going to try and invent a type of corkscrew that was easier to use. So there are over 3,000 patents on corkscrews. And that kind of piqued my interest. So I tried to find out more about it, and I discovered that no matter how much I learned, there was more to learn. I did. I was very fortunate one time to obtain a corkscrew that actually received the first patent for a corkscrew in 1795. So we have that corkscrew on display and it’s kind of cool.

Lisa: Very cool. So corkscrew was kind of the intro object. And I guess in a way that. Do you feel like that kind of got you started your whole wine career?

Scott: Well, my parents were wine merchants even at that time. And let’s try that again. This is frequent. This is more than it should. Well, we could go upstairs. There’s a conference room up there. Should we try that?

Lisa: Yeah. Any refrigerators in there?

Scott: This is doing it much more often than I thought. No, not there isn’t.

Lisa: Okay. Okay.

Lisa: thanks to the magic of editing, you might not be able to tell just how often the fridge and freezer were kicking on and off in the tastevin room. While this equipment is super important for the functioning of the kitchen, it is not ideal for the recording of a podcast! Fridges are my podcast nemesis. Once we moved up to the conference room, the recording went much more smoothly…

Lisa: So we were just talking about if the corkscrew was the thing that brought you into the wine industry or if it was something else.

Scott: So when I was growing up, my parents were wine merchants in Denver and I developed an interest in wine from a very early age. We would have family discussions on Sundays about wine and I would ask my dad what’s the difference between a three dollar bottle and a thirty dollar bottle? And that would lead to more information probably than I wanted at the time. But we studied wine and I remember riding my 10 speed bicycle to the public library and checking out books on wine and going to used bookstores and buying books on wine. It’s kind of an odd thing for a young person to do that. But I wanted to know why wine was, why it involved so many subjects. Why it involved history and culture and science and it just seemed to be an all encompassing subject and it was something that I enjoyed on Sunday evenings at dinner, even as a young person. My dad would make sure that we all got a little taste of the wine.

Lisa: So corkscrews, you mentioned you have a few. I would guess it’s the largest object by far that you have in the Collection, is that right? And if so, how many or how many do you have?

Scott: It is, we have probably close to 18,000 antique corkscrews.

Lisa: Wow.

Scott: And we’re going to end up with probably 3,000 or 4,000 on display. There’s a lot of duplicates and there are things that aren’t as meaningful as others, so we’re trying to put collections together, on exhibit that makes sense, that tie together for different reasons, whether they’re from the same country or the same inventor or the same time period, things like that. But I think they’re fun, you know, they’re not only a tool, but they’re fun, to look at and fun to use certainly. And it’s really odd because at Colterris I decided to go with a Stelvin closure, which is a type of screw cap on our wines, nine years ago. So I don’t need a corkscrew to open my wine. But if I did, I have plenty of them.

Lisa: That’s pretty funny. That’s actually really ironic. I didn’t think about that.

Scott: Yeah, it’s kind of odd.

Lisa: That’s pretty funny. So getting back to the collection, we had talked about maybe picking like three to five of your favorite objects and going into a deep dive on them. Is that something that makes sense that you want to talk about or.

Scott: Sure. It’s hard to narrow it down to three objects, you know, three things that I’m proud of to own. But there are some unique things and some of the things that I purchased over the years were from descendants of the person involved in that object. So, for example, I have this tastevin, once again, that was presented to Napoleon Bonaparte during his hundred days of reign in 1815, where he met his Waterloo later on in the summer. But Napoleon was out on kind of a recruiting trip. He had escaped the island of Elba in exile and he’d kicked Louis XII back off the throne. And he was trying to reamass his troops and get a lot of new soldiers because he knew the seventh coalition was going to be coming after him again. So he was trying to raise a couple hundred thousand people into his military very quickly. So he was visiting different cities and different towns and he happened to drop by a small village called Saint Jean de Braye, and it’s outside of Orleans.

And he had kind of done a favor to one of his adjutants to go to this small village because one of his loyal people was from that village. And he asked the emperor if the emperor could just go by and do a 10 minute recruiting trip and a little speech on the town hall steps. And that so that someday when that adjutant retired, he would be kind of the big man on campus. He would be the guy that they’d point to on the park bench and say that old man brought the Emperor Napoleon to our village and that sort of thing. So he wanted to see if he could talk the emperor into doing that. And I can’t imagine him even bringing up the subject. But Napoleon quickly acquiesced. They were going to go right through the village area anyway. And Napoleon parked his garrison of troops and rode his white horse into the village. He met several hundred people, around the town hall. The mayor of the town presented him with a little tastevin, believe it or not, that’s engraved with the date of the event and the fact that they were celebrating Napoleon’s visit to their city. And he presented to Napoleon. Napoleon graciously accepted it. And then when the speech was over and they walked down off the town steps, Napoleon gave it back to the mayor. He just said, I’m not taking your silver. You know, the French Revolution was just a few years ago. And the last thing I want to do is to accept something that you scraped together to do that for me. So he was appreciative gave the tastevin back to the mayor.

And I got it from, I think the seventh generation descendant of the mayor’s. And so it’s something that the emperor actually held in his hand. And it means a lot. We had an exchange student who came to Palisade High School and stayed with us for a semester a long time ago. And I showed him this tastevin, and he started to cry when he held it. He couldn’t believe that he was touching something and holding something that the Emperor Napoleon had actually done the same. So he, he teared up. And then I showed him another object that I’m very proud of. I showed him a corkscrew, a wooden handled corkscrew that was recovered from the Battle of Waterloo, in June 1815. And then this young French, student, he got angry, the tears stopped, he got angry, and he said, we should have never lost that war. And he became very, very nationalistic in his approach to the corkscrew. But he was delighted to be able to see those objects.

This Battle of Waterloo corkscrew I bought from a descendant of the man who basically helped to loot the battlefield after the battle. And at that time, French officers, generals, and colonels and above, they were provided corkscrews. And they received bottles of wine and bottles of brandy before their battles. And they would need a corkscrew to open the bottles of brandy and wine. I think they called it a little bit of liquid courage at the time for the soldiers. But the infantry and the cavalry, they didn’t need a corkscrew because they drank wine out of barrels of wine, so it was not required for them. But this corkscrew from the Battle of Waterloo actually has a French artillery symbol on it and Napoleon’s crown. So that’s how we were able to authenticate that the story I got when I bought it was true. It might be the only one in existence, I’m not sure.

Lisa: Well, that’s really cool.

Scott: Yeah, it’s pretty special. Something else I have that’s unique is, I obtained a sherry glass that had King George III’s emblem etched on it. And I wasn’t sure it was what I thought it was, but so I sent it off to the Victoria and Albert Museum about 20 years ago, and they wanted to keep it. And that told me it was real. So they wanted to keep it. It was the only one that they had ever seen that had gold dust rolled into the stem of the wine glass. And the glass blower must have done that at quite an additional cost. But they theorized that it was probably part of his King George III’s inner circle to have the gold in it. And it’s amazing that something that’s so fragile and could be broken so easily has survived that over 200 years. So it’s really a special thing, and I’m very proud to have that. I get nervous when I have to handle it and put it into the display case, but now it’s sitting pretty. I didn’t want anything to happen to that. So there’s a lot of fun things. It’s hard to narrow it down.

Lisa: Yeah. Is there anything that you’ve really wanted to collect that you weren’t able to get or anything you’re seeking that you haven’t been able to find so far?

Scott: If my wife listens, I’d have to say no, I have everything I need. I don’t think there’s anything else ever I would need in this subject. It’s hard to figure out what the next thing is that I might uncover or find. But nothing comes to mind that I really wished I had right now. No, I can’t really think of anything really, per se.

Lisa: Okay. All right. Good answer. So you just touched on a few of the objects out there. There are a lot more. And I know when you walk into the museum, there’s going to be a little bit about the history of Colterris and Palisade winemaking. Can you talk a little bit about what you’ll feature there for local wine history?

Scott: Well, what we’re doing there is we’re basically trying to answer a couple questions that someone will ask when they come in to see the Collections. And already we’ve had some sneak peeks where people have seen things. And the questions they ask are, where in the world did you get this? And how much did you pay for that? And where did this come from? How did you find this? So those sorts of questions. So in the very first display cases, when you enter the museum or the Collections, you’ll see a little bit of family history in how Theresa and I met in the wine business and how we have this common passion about the world of wine. And you’ll see a few things about places that we traveled and times that we spent out and about learning more about the world of wine and visiting famous winemakers and famous places. And it’s more about our background. And there’s a little bit about Colterris in there and a little bit about the Canyon Wind Winery that we purchased and the Plum Creek Winery that’s here at this location that we purchased for the Collections. Not an awful lot about the history of Palisade wine in there. I don’t want to start competing with the Palisade History Museum and Priscilla Walker and that sort of thing. She does a great job, and I would like to leave most of that up to her. But we have more of a worldwide view about wines, so not a lot of local history.

Lisa: So a good day would be start at the Palisade History Museum. That’ll give you the whole picture of wine in the Grand Valley.

Scott: Sure, yeah. And I love what Priscilla Walker did over there. It’s really fun to see the history of Palisade, especially displayed the way she did it.

Lisa: Walk me through the space. It’s absolutely gorgeous. It’s a very big room. Beautiful chandeliers, shiny floor, shiny cases, lit up artifacts. How do you want a visitor to experience this space and what’s their visit going to be like?

Scott: Well, I think some things that I’d like for people to know about would be that, we designed the display cases here locally and we had them fabricated here locally. And all the components for the display cases were made here. We had Osburn Cabinets do the melamine inserts, and we had SSD Plastics make all the glass fronts, and The Glass Brokerage did the shelving, and Clemmer Welding did all the displays. And so we wanted to be 100% local, if possible. Theresa had the chandeliers custom made, and they’re fine art chandeliers. They’re traditional but yet modern. They have a modern twist to them. And we wanted to provide some lighting up there. But I’m very proud of the fact that we have different sorts of lighting. And it’s all on dimmers. We have track lights that point up into the architectural clouds that absorb the sound. We have track lights that illuminate the floors in front of the cases. Everything seems to be very clean.

And we have little areas where the display cases, you can fall into a little pod area where there’s four or six display cases around you and you can enjoy those for a time and really not see anybody else necessarily in the next pod of display cases. So there are nine or ten of those pod areas where people can kind of get immersed into those subjects and really feel like they’re interacting with the exhibits themselves, which I think is fun. It’s not dusty or dirty or old or, it’s very modern and clean and efficient. And we have a lot of stories. So one of the things that I think people can do is they can work at their own pace through the museum. They can go at their own pace, where they see something of interest, they can spend more time there. If they see something that really isn’t of that much interest to them personally, they can just get an overview of it and move on.

So I did have some people who told me that they want to come and read every display case and every sign and they want to absorb it all completely. And the gentleman started looking at one case, and he spent about 20 minutes on that one case. There are 60 of those. So I’m not sure we’ll be open that many hours that day. There’s a lot to see. I think that’s the gist of it. And a lot of different stories. And I’m really proud to put those stories in there.

There’s another story that I think is really fun. Sometimes I tell this story, but I put it in writing as best I could. But there was a traveling salesperson who worked for a printing company in Chicago in the 1920s and 1930s. And this traveling salesperson, his job was to go see customers in different cities, particularly in the Midwest. And as he traveled around and fell into the Great Depression era, he discovered that he had to try to find the best places to eat that were the cleanest, the most sanitary, that provided the best food. Because a lot of people in the 20s and 30s were getting food poisoning. There weren’t any chain dependable restaurants. Everything was independently owned. And so he kept a little log book of the best place to have breakfast in Nashville and the best place to have ribs in Kansas City. And so he started little list. And then he ran into some other traveling salespeople that had lists. And so he exchanged lists and his list of good restaurants to eat in grew.

And so with that, a Chicago newspaper one time ran an article about his unusual hobby of collecting good places to eat in his notebooks. They wrote an article about him and his unusual hobby. And he then became inundated with letters and phone calls from people who said, they’re going to Santa Fe, where’s a good place for dinner. So he started spending almost all of his time answering letters and trying to be courteous and polite to people who wanted to know a safe place to eat or a good place to eat. And he realized that he was putting too much time into that and not enough time into his job at one point.

So in the fall of 1936, he printed up 1,000 pieces of paper that had 167 different restaurants on it. And he mailed them to everybody he knew. He put them in his Christmas cards, all of his business associates, all of his customers. And he thought, that’ll put an end to it by doing it. He’ll just put an end to it. And so he’ll provide the list and then he’ll be done with it. Well, that fueled another problem because then everybody, it seemed, wanted a copy of that list. So in the spring of 1937, he printed up another thousand. And to cover his printing costs and stuff, he sold them for a dollar a piece. And in 1937, $1,000 for 1,000 pieces of paper was a lot of money.

So that fueled the idea for him to finally self-publish a book. And he printed up a book that had, I think by that time, almost 400 restaurants in it. But he was very, a person of very high integrity. And he couldn’t be bought off. He couldn’t get a restaurant on there if someone paid for it, if they weren’t any good. So he had really high standards and people admired that. And then before long, he was selling 5,000 books a year, then 10,000 books a year. And in the course of the rest of his life, until 1960 or so, he had sold 3 million copies of this, which turned out to be a restaurant guide. And he became somewhat famous at the time. And then a cake mix company in Nebraska asked him to recommend their cake mix. And after five years of trial and error to get this cake mix the way this man wanted it, he finally acquiesced and let them put his name on the box. And his name was Duncan Hines.

Lisa: Oh my goodness.

Scott: And there really was a man named Duncan Hines. And he was not just in charge of cake mixes, but then he licensed his name for other things. Well, I have a bottle of French Beaujolais from 1953 that on the neck band says a Duncan Hines selection, just like the cake mix. And I think that’s a funny story.

Lisa: That is funny. I have to say there’s not where I thought it was going to go.

Scott: Yeah, but people don’t realize that there really was a Duncan Hines. There really was not a Betty Crocker. So it’s kind of an interesting thing. I have a fun letter that he personally wrote to some friends of his he was gonna go visit in Indianapolis in the 1940s. And he must have been a character because he asked if they still had their liquor cabinet because he wanted to enjoy some of their beverages. But he must have been a partier.

Lisa: It sounds like. Sounds like the life of the party, the one person everybody wants to go to. That’s really funny. Yeah. Not expecting that to go there. So in the room itself, when you enter, you have a beautiful bar to your right. It seems like part of the experience is also designed for someone to come in and have a glass of wine and maybe sip a glass of wine as they’re walking around too.

Scott: Right, exactly. we wanted this to be a kind of a fun place, a place that people would enjoy coming to. And we’d like for people to come back more often to, we’re going to be changing exhibits once in a while, but when you come into the museum, you can certainly have a glass of Colterris wine and carry it around, walk around. We’re going to have some benches to sit at, and we’re gonna have some cocktail tables and our wine barrels to sit your drink on when you’re enjoying the tours. And I think it’s gonna be a nice event because I know that when I used to ride those school buses, they never offered me any wine to go to those exhibits. So, yeah, it’s a wine museum. It’s a collection of historical wine objects, but you can enjoy it with a glass of wine because we are in Colorado’s wine country, so it made sense to us.

Lisa: Yeah, makes sense. So tell me about the grand opening. When does it open? What’s that going to look like?

Scott: Well, it’s, coming up pretty quickly. After 54 years of collecting these things, I finally get the chance to show them off. We are going to have a pre-grand opening for some invited guests that are mostly related to the local governments in the Grand Valley. And then we’re going to have the local Palisade industry, the other wineries, and the bed and breakfast, and the restaurateurs and people who are associated with the tourist business. We’re going to invite everybody to that regard so they can get a little preview of it. And then Monday the 23^rd, we’re gonna open at 10am and then every day except major holidays from then on, we hope.

Lisa: Wonderful. And there’s an admission. Right. So there is an admission cost.

Scott: Yeah. So to defer all these expenses that we’re incurring here, we’re going to have to charge an admission and it’s going to be $20 to come into the museum for as long as you want to stay that day. And if you’re a wine club member at Colterris, it’s $15. So I think that’s reasonable.

Lisa: I’ll be having to come back a few times to see everything.

Scott: Yeah, what we want. That’s what we want to hear, Lisa.

Lisa: Is there anything else you want to say about the collection space? Like maybe any events that can be hosted here?

Scott: Yeah. After we laid it out and we had this little set of all these displays that kind of serpentine around the perimeter of the room, I looked at it and I thought, it’s a big enough open space in the middle that we could actually put some tables in. We could move tables in, have parties. We could have concert nights. We could play acoustic music in particular. I don’t think it’s a place for a big rock and roll venue, but.

Lisa: Don’t want to shake that glass.

Scott: Yeah, don’t want to shake. No, I don’t want to shake up the display cabinets. But I think we could have a comedy night, certainly. We could have, like I said, acoustic music, enjoyable evenings like that. One of the things I thought would be really fun is to bring back a little bit of a Copacabana or Coconut Grove night where we have 100 people, dim the lights down, candles on the table, have a classic singer perform for an hour or two and make it feel like the old enjoyable rooms of the 1940s and 1950s where Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin and those people entertained. I think that would be a fun evening here where people can do that.

So to that end, we have one area that’s specifically laid out so we can bring a portable stage in that we have. And we put professional stage truss lighting up on the ceiling that’ll illuminate that area. And we have over 60 large, acoustic panels up in the perimeter of the ceiling around to absorb most of that excess sound. And as I alluded to earlier, we have a lot of architectural clouds that include 88 wine barrel heads that have acoustic tiles on the backside of them so you don’t see them. And they kind of hang down in different areas around the pods. So it kind of brings the ceiling down a little bit and has a little more of a feng shui sort of feel to the space where you don’t feel like you’re in a big open spaced warehouse kind of.

But yeah, we’re excited to the possibility of having events down the road. We also, we’re going to try and have some tours down the road, we’ll come to a point where we’re going to do some guided tours and we’re going to work on an audio descriptive narration where people can either get on their iPhones and search in what that display has and then they’ll hear a narration of it. And we hope to do it in multiple languages down the road.

So the next few years we have a lot of work still ahead of us, but I think we want to make this a not just a local venue, but we’d like to make it kind of a regional and a national venue. I had a gentleman visit two weeks ago from France in the wine business and he was shocked at what’s in here and he basically said he’s toured all over the world and been to a few wine museums in France and Italy and Greece and he’s never seen anything quite like this because he thought it was nice to have it a little more lighthearted and not laid out in a chronological fashion so you could just experience a lot of fun, little different things about the world of wine. He was really surprised to find this in Palisade. So I think it’s something I want the whole area to be proud of.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely.

Scott: Yeah.

Lisa: I’ve heard of rumors that originally you were going to open the collection in downtown Palisade.

Scott: Well, to this. Yeah, you’re right. To this end we purchased what a lot of people call the depot, but it was actually the Palisade branch of the Grand Junction Fruit Growers Association. And that building then later it became the Mountain Lion Building. And it’s architecturally just a fabulous building right in the center of town. I just love the brickwork and the Italian Renaissance roof line. And it has a lot of history to it.

At one time it went over 400 feet to the west as a big packing shed that was on the railroad siding there where they processed Palisade peaches and shipped them all over the country. That burned down I think in the 1970s. But the main offices that were brick didn’t burn down and they were saved. And we still have that, but we bought that because we thought that’d be a great venue for this wine museum. And I think it would have been. But one of the problems was there just wasn’t enough off street parking. And the town proposed that I just use the streets around there to park cars. And I was starting to get some resistance from some of the neighbors, understandably so. And I understand why they wouldn’t want cars parked in front of their house all day.

So we backed away from that project, even after I had done an extensive asbestos remediation of it and had worked up some architectural plans for it and submitted them to the town. And everybody was moving forward until we started to see that there wasn’t enough parking. That was the main thing.

Lisa: That’s a bummer.

Scott: Yeah, we still own it. And as soon as this museum gets opened and rolling, we will start working on some ideas there. But if anybody has any ideas, I’m all ears. So please seek me out and let me know what you think because it is a challenging, fairly difficult place to do something with because from an engineering standpoint and stuff, we’re not sure what the foundation’s like on the building and we’re just not. It would require a lot more investigation before we do anything special with it. But I would love to preserve the building if possible.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. Oh, I can see, I love that building. I can see it from my window. And yeah, just, just want to make sure it stays. But I see the parking thing because if you look at it, you think, okay, well that land around it is part of it, but it’s actually not like, especially in the front. I think that’s technically, like, technically Peach Street.

Scott: Right. Yeah, no it is, it’s Peach Street.

Lisa: Okay. So yeah, so that’s not even part of the lot.

Scott: Exactly. The east property line basically is just after the bottom step of the building. So there is Peach Street extended there and the town is certainly willing to work with us on that. But the issue is in the existing building right now there’s just not enough square feet to make any economically feasible business operate. It’s just not big enough from a square footage standpoint. So you have to add on probably to the west. And by doing that, then that’s where the issues come in, is how much do you add on, how much parking do you leave available between the building and the next property line to the west. And it’s challenging. I wished it was easier to come up with an idea, but it’s challenging.

Lisa: Yeah. Interesting challenge. So you’re welcome, or you’re open to people reaching out with ideas?

Scott: Sure. Maybe they should, filter them out a little bit themselves first, but, yeah. But, yeah, it is. We’d love to do something with it and something good for the downtown area of Palisade. But it has to be compatible with the desires of the town and the neighborhood and everything. And it’s a beautiful building. We’d love to save it if we can.

Lisa: It is. Yeah. Well, I appreciate your being thoughtful about it.

Scott: Yeah. I wished I could come up with an idea.

Lisa: All right, we’ll be thinking about it. So, shifting over to you and Theresa, what originally brought you to Palisade?

Scott: Well, we came over here for a friend’s wedding. They were actually, they got married in Vail, and we decided to not stay in Vail for one of the pricey hotels. We decided to come on over to the Grand Valley. And she had never been over here before, even though she lived in Denver. And she fell in love with the area immediately. She just said it reminded her of Sonoma County 30 years ago. And she liked the rural aspect of it and not a lot of traffic lights. And certainly the agriculture was very attractive to both of us. We always wanted to have a vineyard somewhere. And matter of fact, to that end, we had looked in Sonoma county and Napa county in California, and Bordeaux, France, and Mendoza, Argentina, and the Willamette Valley. And we had looked all over for a place that we might someday have a vineyard. Growing up in the wine business and being in the wine business all my adult life, it’s a natural thing to try to figure out a way to grow grapes someday. And we saw that opportunity over here, and after the time that she. After that day she fell in love with it, there was no looking back. We actually bought 10 acres, I think within a month or two of her first visit over here. So, that’s how Colterris kind of got started.

Lisa: Okay. And I see some of the lore on the Colterris website is that you promised if Theresa would marry you, that you’d buy her a vineyard. Was that really what sealed the deal?

Scott: Well, we talked about having a vineyard someday, before we were married. And we certainly had that mutual desire. And I think I might have expressed to her that it’s more likely that I would be able to provide her a vineyard someday than a rose garden. And it’d be more compatible with my thoughts and ideas. But now she has both, because we have a rose garden and a vineyard. And so I think she, she got her, her deal there. She got what she wanted. We actually got engaged on a trip in France and Italy visiting vineyards. So, yeah, I think she’s summarized it pretty well that I did promise her a vineyard.

Lisa: I love it. So really, wine has really been the through line of your life and your life together.

Scott: Yeah.

Lisa: So Colterris is the largest estate grown wine producer in Colorado, meaning that Colterris uses your own grapes to make all of your own wine. And you’ve been around for almost 15 years? Is that right?

Scott: Yeah, I think so. I think that’s right. Yeah. Our first vintage was 2008. We didn’t release it until 2010. So I’m not sure where you start with the vintage or the release of the first wine or whatever. But yeah, we really started in 1999 when we bought our first acreage up here is where High Country Orchards and Colterris really began. The first 10 acres we bought were all peaches and the peach trees were just too beautiful and the peaches that came off them were fabulous. So we just kept that peach orchard, got into the peach business and kept looking for another plot of land that we could plant a vineyard. And now we have both.

So we’re very proud of the fact that we’re Colorado’s largest estate winery. It means a lot to me for the authenticity of the wine to actually have the grapes grown here in Colorado. Some wineries, they don’t have that same feeling and they, it’s not as important to them where their source of grapes comes from. But I think if we’re going to have a Colorado winery, we should grow the grapes. I think that’s important. So to that end, we have almost 70 acres of vines now and we’re able to supply the needs of Colterris going forward, for the short term anyway. And we have two really talented winemakers that I’m very proud of, from Colorado actually, which is nice. They were trained in California and elsewhere, but they’re really good winemakers. And we’re operating very compatibly with their abilities and our desires. So we do want to make Colterris always and only from our vineyards. That’s our goal.

Lisa: Yeah, that’s good principle. So in the past, so I’d say. Okay. So since 2008, obviously a lot has changed here in the valley and in the wine industry in Colorado and the world, really. But what do you think are some of the most kind of notable changes or surprising changes to you in the last, ah, X number of years since you’ve started making wine?

Scott: Well, it’s fun to see new wineries come into the area. That excites me when I see another winery come into the area. It saddens me when I see a winery go out of business. So I want everybody to succeed, as far as the wine business goes. I haven’t noticed a lot of changes. I mean, when I first got here, I was really. I remember the Palisade Tribune newspaper. I remembered the breakfast cafes that we used to go to, and I remember all that. I wish that Palisade was progressing faster than it has. And I’m sad with the fact that we haven’t got more fine dining places, places to eat that people would enjoy. We do have really nice ones that are here, but I guess I just want. I want it to prosper better.

I mean, other changes that. Let’s see. Well, one of the things that I think is really remarkable are the people that I’ve met here in Palisade. Looking back, at first, it was kind of difficult to be an outsider and to come in and especially jump into the peach business without a lot of background in it. I think it was challenging. And now we finally feel like we’re part of the community, so that’s a nice feeling.

Lisa: Yeah. So you personally, when you open a bottle of Colterris wine, what’s your go-to? What’s your favorite one?

Scott: Well, it depends on the situation. Depends on the food that we’re preparing or having for dinner. The older I get, the more I like Sauvignon Blanc. I just think our Sauvignon Blanc is delicious and our dry Riesling. Bo and Justin, our winemakers, I think they’re making really good wines. We had a gentleman here yesterday that worked at a winery in California, he tasted five of our wines and he bought a bottle of each. So I think that was a good thing. He liked all five of them. Saying what my favorite wine is is difficult. It’s like saying which one of my children’s my favorite, and that varies every day with their situation with me.

Lisa: I love it. You love them all for different reasons.

Scott: I love them all for different reasons. Right. They’re all they’re truly unique, just like our wines.

Lisa: That’s cute. Personally, I love the Coloradeaux, the Bordeaux style blend. It’s really nice.

Scott: Yeah, it’s really nice. That’s kind of our. I tell people that our Coloradeaux is, it’s our version of a French Bordeaux, obviously. And in the wine business in the United States, if you’re going to have a wine made from vitis vinifera grapes, it has to be 75% that particular grape variety. If you’re making wines from a different species like vitus labrusca or something, it can be 51% Concord and still be called Concord. But for our purposes, when we make a wine, it has to be at least 75% of that varietal. And to me, when I taste a wine that’s 75% Merlot, for example, and 25% something else, it doesn’t necessarily always taste like what I would expect a Merlot tastes like.

So for us to have wines that I would consider to be varietally correct in flavor, they usually have to be way up into the 85, 90, 95 percentile range of that variety. We do want to add some other varieties for complexity and to make the wines more interesting. So we add layers of flavor by adding a little bit of Malbec to the Merlot or Cab Sauv to the Merlot or Cabernet Franc to the Merlot. If we want the Merlot to really be a full bodied, rounded wine with good mid palate flavors and good finish and good aromatics and nice color.

So blended wines are really where the state of the art for winemaking falls into, especially for red wines. But sometimes the winemakers will decide that they want to make a really interesting wine or they can make a really good blend of those variety grapes and not have it be 75% of one of them. So if it’s a varietally named wine from Colterris, I can guarantee it’s way up into the 90 percentiles of that variety. So it’s typical of that variety. But Colterris Coloradeaux is a wine that the gloves can come off for Bo and Justin, and they can make whatever they want. They don’t have to hold to the 75% minimum restriction of a single grape variety. And so it’s kind of their chef special every year. Like a restaurant would have a chef’s special to keep the chef from getting bored with the same thing every day. So once a year, we pretty much allow them to blend to their heart’s content to make an interesting red wine and it truly is one of our standout red wines. Our Coloradeaux Reserve got a double gold medal last year in San Francisco. So it holds its own very well from a national viewpoint of quality. And, yeah, I’m really proud of it. I think it’s an interesting wine every year. It’s special. I’m glad you like that. By the way.

Lisa: Absolutely. It definitely allows their skills to shine. And yeah, it’s always really delicious.

Scott: It has a lot. It has a lot of flavors. And the thing about Coloradeaux, because of the complexity of the grape components of it, it’s going to age and evolve and change quite a bit in the bottle. So it’s one of those wines that will be totally different a year from now than you taste it now as the components ebb and flow. But it’s a special wine.

Lisa: Is there anything else that you want to talk about with the collection, with the winery, with anything?

Scott: Well, our hope and our desire and our goal with the Collections is that it really contributes to the valley, that it really helps the tourism in the valley that we become thought of as a more serious wine growing area in the United States. And the reputation for Palisade is already growing very quickly and very well. It’s doing great as far as the quality of our wines go here and the high altitude viticulture that we can provide for our vineyards is exceptional. I mean, we’re extracting great flavors from our red wines in particular and high acidity in our white wines. And I think we’re making wines that are going to be well thought of in the future from a national standpoint. But I really want the Colterris Collections to be something that pleasantly surprises people when they come to the valley and something that they talk about when they go home, wherever they’re from, and they go, you won’t believe what I saw in Palisade. Little Palisade, Colorado. You won’t believe what I saw. I think it’s a world class venue that is just going to surprise people. I mean, it surprised you, I think.

Lisa: Oh, yeah. I think you’ve accomplished that.

Scott: Yeah.

Lisa: It’s, the only word I could tell everyone afterwards was, wow, you’re not going to believe it.

Scott: That’s the word I heard even from two people this. Well, the gentleman from the California winery that came here yesterday, he and his wife were just touring the area and I said, I’ll give you a little sneak peek of something. He said, sure. And the first word out of his mouth was, wow. And the second word was, wow. And I think the third word was, wow. And it’s just, that. That’s the most descriptive word I can think of that it’s not what people expect. And actually, when you pull up to the Colterris Collections facility, the roof line is such for the front of it that you don’t really think there’s a big building here. It’s deceiving. And when you walk through the door, it kind of takes you by surprise.

Lisa: Yeah.

Scott: And that’s a good thing.

Lisa: Yeah, you definitely pulled that off. Well, I cannot wait to visit after the 23^rd of June.

Scott: There we go.

Lisa: I’ll definitely be here. Can’t wait to check it out.

Scott: All right.

Lisa: Thank you so much for your time.

Scott: Absolutely. Lisa, thank you. We appreciate everything you do for us too. Thank you.

Lisa: Thank you so much.

Lisa: Go be pleasantly surprised by the Colterris Collections at 3708 G Road, then email me at lisa(at)postcardsfrompalisade.com to tell me how many times you said wow – I’m betting it’s going to be at an Owen Wilson level of wow.

The podcast’s theme music is Riverbend by Geoff Roper.

Thanks for listening. With love, from Palisade.